Urban Development
Submitted by amerianna on Sun, 02/22/2009 - 21:53
Obama's Stimulus Package will soon provide hundreds of cities across the country with money for tens of thousands of sorely needed infrastructure projects while providing millions of desperately needed jobs. I cannot see the down side here!
infrastructure improvements
are projects that, in a best case scenario, are completed. Any job creation will be temporary, and we will face the same problems that we are facing now once the infrastructure projects are finished.
It is a ineffective short-term solution to a long-term problem.
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"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
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If you are really are
If you are really are looking for a down side and have an open mind. All as you have to do is look to Cuba. For almost 50 years now their government has been providing jobs for their people. If you think Cuba is great country and the ultimate goal of the US government then there is no down side.
It's funny when the
It's funny when the government goes into a ghetto and replaces the projects with upscale townhomes that the population can't afford. All it does is displace people and leaves the houses vacant.
And who foots the bill? Take a guess.
http://federalfallacy.com
http://federalfallacy.com
Without strings attached?
They either never show people the strings or show people after the law has been enacted.
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Start getting freedom today by dumping Federal Reserve Notes, Stocks, Banks and anything made outside the USA. Buy precious metals, real estate, businesses, food and guns and get your business community to use local or sound currency.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Start getting freedom today by dumping Federal Reserve Notes, Stocks, Banks and anything made outside the USA. Buy precious metals, real estate, businesses, food and guns and get your business community to use local or sound currenc
Then open your eyes!!!!
Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.
Tea Party People--Folks that want to be on the winning team, and just so happen to think that the republicans have cuter helmets and jerseys. Don't matter if the two teams always tie to them, they KNOW they really won.
where is the money coming
where is the money coming from? how do you know the infrastructure projects are "sorely needed"? were they that sorely needed, the market would have provided for them. for that matter, who says infrastructure is a good thing? what about all the misallocation of capital from productive sectors of the economy? what about the interest being paid on that money that the great grandkids will have to pay?
now that you see the downside, you can vote for his opposition.
jeffwhite, These Artist's Need Our Help Desparately....
This project caused a lot of controvery from the beginning, funding was the main problem.I wish it was still the leather tannery...after a hunt you could take your skins there and they made the softest pelts.
http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/view/15862
$10,000,000
The Tannery Arts Center is dedicated to providing an affordable, accessible and sustainable home for the Arts in Santa Cruz County.
The vision for the Tannery Arts Center is to create a home for the arts in Santa Cruz County dedicated to creating opportunities for individual artists and arts organizations, residents and visitors to create, explore, perform, exhibit, learn and enjoy the Arts.
http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/view/3349
Or how about Cidra, Puerto Rico
New Energy Efficiency Industrial Zones 100 Acres
$17,500,000,000.00 - 1628 jobs - Energy Program
$10,749,385 per job! Sounds reasonable.
Another way of costing this project - 43,560 square feet in an acre - 100 acres in the project - 4,356,000 square feet in the project - $17,500,000,000 price tag - $4,017 per square foot They must be paving the streets with gold.
Yet another way: - Puerto Rico 2000 population estimate 4,000,000 - $17,500,000,000 price tag - $4,375 per person - My tax cut: $13/week - Weeks it'll take me to see an equal benefit: 336 - Years it'll take me to see an equal benefit: 6.5
The population of Cidra, PR is 38,000. The total they are scheduled to receive, including this project is about $18,546,035,000. That works out to almost $500,000 per person for this one city.
http://www.stimuluswatch.org
Paper Ballots,Hand Counted At The Precinct Or Bust
http://www.ronpaulsingles.com/
Paper Ballots Hand Counted At The Precinct Or Bust
Support WTP Federal Supreme Court Case To Ban All Electronic Voting Or Forget 2010 or 2012
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2009-05-11...
Side note...government out
Side note...government out sourcing and contracts
I was recently told that ONE company (British owned) operates all of our toll roads and bridges (States and Federal). How "American" is that?
"It is not yours to give"
"It is not yours to give" Davy Crocket
Nuff said
Your servant for freedom, Clay
Sorry, I disagree...
I have issues with gov. having even some oversight of how a city spends its money.
Washington Times article from this weekend where Obama warns mayors to spend wisely.
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The answer to 1984 is 1776! ~ Alex Jones
When asked what did you give us?
"A Republic, if you can keep it" ~ Benjamin Frankiln
The answer to 1984 is 1776! ~ Alex Jones
When asked what did you give us?
"A Republic, if you can keep it" ~ Benjamin Frankiln
i have issues with the very
i have issues with the very concept of cities.
printing money
libby said about printing money, "I cannot see the down side here!"
If printing money can create wealth and prosperity, then why aren't we all wealthy and prosperous? Zimbabwe recently tried printing, and it is not working out so well. Printing money doesn't create wealth.
wouldn't it be easier to
wouldn't it be easier to legalize counterfeiting? i mean, rather than have the state absorb the printing costs, just outsource it to the people!
Look around at the people. We are
all hurting because of taxes, inflation (secret tax), regulation that makes it hard to start new businesses to create or even maintain jobs.
How can you justify squeezing the public even more to fund ever bigger government programs? The Stim.package will balloon the bureaucracy, create an increasing army of government workers to be always paid by more taxation forced from the people, fund lots of new government buildings, offices, cars, more bailouts to failed big businesses, bankers, huge financial firms.
Even worse, transferring more and more private resources to the government and their biggest cronies and donors to political campaigns means ordinary people are ever weaker and poorer and more dependent. And ever more gullible thinking they need the government to save them.
The government has robbed us of power, freedom, and resources to the point that people no long believe in themselves as strong creators. But people are the source. When the populace is enslaved they will stop producing all wealth. It's the history of socialism written in starvation and destruction all across the 20th century, in country after country. No exceptions. That is why most countries are bankrupt and failing now. The triumph of socialism and central planning arrogance and greed.
Keep it simple
It's slavery. To force people to pay through taxes, for the benefit of another, with the threat of imprisonment is slavery. If I walked up to you on the street and said, "give me $100", you would say "no". If I then said, "I am a neighbor, and my home is run down and is threatening your property values because nobody wants to live near me", would you then give? What if I told you that you have to give it to me or I would lock you up in my house? Get the point here? You have to listen to Ron Paul. Deficit spending is no cure for our ills. Besides, the stimulus bill has very little infrastructure built into it. That is how it was sold to the people.
only a brain dead, public
only a brain dead, public school brainwashed, imbecile would not see the downside to this.. libby you are much smarter than this!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
Government.. school. They
Government.. school. They are not "public"! Have you ever tryed to talk to a school board?
Here's a down side....my
Here's a down side....my borough lives within it's means and it's infrastructure is completely updated right now. Now, all the other boroughs who are bankrupt will be stealing from me to pay for things they should have kept up with all along. They will be stealing to pay for police pensions, and everything else they can think of.
I don't think that's how it works.
But even if it did, don't you realize that if those boroughs around yours go down, they will pull yours down with them? We are all connected!
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
Yes, it's how it works.
Yes, it's how it works. Bankrupt cities and boroughs want to tap into the affluent boroughs. At the state level, they want to do away with boroughs and put all control at the capital. They want to do away with our right to manage our own money for pensions and projects. I am fighting it now.
If I may..... Yes we are all
If I may.....
Yes we are all connected because globalization has connected us all. So the offer up on the table is more governmental control and more globalization to prop up a failed system. Not to speak for everybody here, but I think most people on this site would rather see the failed system fail so that we may break the global ties and regain our regional and local sovereignty. That is wh we are so against these globalist socialist policies.
Check out this short video
Check out this short video and listen real carefully. okaythanksbye.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=118kqCPi6Ow&eurl=http://socia...
Except that it's unconstitutional
Except that it's unconstitutional to take away local control for those projects. If they were truly needed & not a Christmas wish list for all the liberals, then the projects would have been approved by the LOCAL voters. Tell me what is stimulating about a frisbee golf course in Austin, Texas?!
I don't know anything about a frisbee golf course in Austin, but
I have seen a lot of decay in our cities' infrastructure across the country. The monies that were allocated for these projects were obviously mismanaged and/or blatently misused or stolen in the past. Are these issues to be simply ignored?
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
No...
of course not. The mismanagement and blatant misuse and stealing should be *rewarded*. (What could be the downside to that?)
The families
whose loved ones were killed when the bridge collapsed up in Minnesota would not think you are very funny, I'm sure. Those funds were blatantly stolen, and the local taxpayers there were robbed and their loved ones were murdered.
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
It's not funny...
at all. Neither is it funny that you advocate having the federal government continue such unfunny activities...or perhaps you have deluded yourself into thinking that your messiah Obama and his administration are not participating in similar robbery and abuse...and to a much greater extent. That's really not funny.
Check out www.stimuluswatch.org
www.stimuluswatch.org
Type in your city & see what "goodies" you will get. Trust me, the frisbee golf course is in Austin's plans.
Thanks
I'll check it out.
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
None.
And I'm actually proud. Nor did the town we are considering moving to. Not one dime in stimulus money. Whoo hoo!
www.urbannaturals.net
www.urbannaturals.net
I don't think his point was
I don't think his point was about a frisbee golf course but about the federal government taking away control from local government. This would mean, ultimately, that the people have less control and the central government has more. Let local taxpayers keep local government accountable for the funds spent. That means the power is in the hands of the people, not the elite and in accordance with the US Constitution.
Exactly!
It's unconstitutional for the local taxpayers to lose control of where their taxpayer dollars would be spent. If a frisbee golf course has merit, THEN LET THE TAXPAYERS VOTE ON IT!! Now, some bureaucrat just added it to the stimulus because it would be cool for a mere $886,000!
Where did the money come from libby?
poof, it exists. I'm working and don't have time to get real deep, but I'm sure someone will. THe other downside is, you are basically talking about millions of CONSTRUCTION jobs. What about others? Do we all become construction workers?
Construction workers? Obama made
it so those jobs only go to Union construction workers who make up only 16 percent of construction workers.
If you can build a chicken coop
you could frame a house :)
And I'll stripe the roads. Okay? :D
www.urbannaturals.net
www.urbannaturals.net
I don't think that in itself
is the issue.
The issue is that he is still spending just as much money overseas AND doing the infrastructure projects. Now if he wanted to say end our military presence in numerous countries and reallocate the money toward infrastructure...that might not be so bad.
Not to mention that there is way more to that bill than just infrastructure projects. And there isn't much of it that's good. It's about more control. It's about more invasion in our lives. It's about bigger government.
The issue is not simply a black or white "What's wrong with this???"
www.urbannaturals.net
www.urbannaturals.net
The silence is deafening, folks!
Can no one enlighten me to a down side?
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
I'll take...
I'll break it down in a couple of categories in order of importance.
1 - It's not the government's money to spend. For every dollar created by the government it has to come from the people. In other words, it flows from one pocket to the other.
2 - "Infrastructure" projects are geared towards "Union" industries & jobs. Why do they get to keep their jobs, while the rest of us in the private sector has to cut back?
3 - Billions of dollars are going to local municipalities & state workers. Why should our taxpayer money fund state & local workers when the rest of us have to cut back and save, or be laid off? The state workers are a burden to the rest of us. When Obama says he's going to "Save" 3 Million jobs, it means all the state & city workers. That is one of the conditions for the states if they accept the money. They can't lay anyone off, or cut back.
4 - How much "urban development" is really needed? I travel often and I can tell you the big cities are doing just fine in terms of infrastructure. They can wait a few years until the economy gets back on it's feet. Building roads & bridges for the sake of building roads & bridges is a really bad idea.
5 - This stimulus seeks to artificially prop-up prices. Why should home prices not fall back to levels where it's reasonable? The big complaint is from the homeowners that are NOT foreclosing that their property values are going down. I say, big deal. These same homeowners road the rising price wave up, they can ride it back down.
6 - Myself and many of my peers are small business owners and this stimulus package does absolutely nothing for me or my peers. When we are struggling and cutting back, the government parasites are stealing money out my pockets to fund the big Unions & state workers. I create jobs. The state creates work that is paid for by the taxpayer.
Very good points sdczen!
I don't think you're a cry baby at all! In fact, you've explained it superbly!
Thank! I didn't think I was
Thank! I didn't think I was crying either. Just telling it like it is :)
I really understand
your issues here. I was also a small business owner (in the transportation industry). I lost my business due to the outrageous fuel costs, then I lost my house. Now I am doing the best I can to get back on my feet without any help from any stimulus or bailout, but I still do not begrudge those who will be helped here. I'm sorry, but you sound like a cry baby to me.
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
I wouldn't resort to name
I wouldn't resort to name calling, but hey tear it up if it makes you feel better.
If you could connect the dots, you would see that the stimulus & bailouts will crash the economy & prolong the problems. The more stimulus that flows from the taxpayer to the 'managed' economy, the longer YOU will be out of work. So, do I begrudge people for working for the government or unions? No. I do however, begrudge the system when it steals from one group of people to redistribute to another.
You have to understand the cycle that will perpetuate itself unless it's stopped. In your scenario, we should all work for the state. Let's all become socialists now, because it's the 'fair' thing to do.
Here are some examples of what your Stimulus you're so proud of will be sponsoring:
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2009/02/14/opinion/s...
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/feb/13/lz1ed13to...
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lireic0219a-...
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/EDITORIAL+HIGHWAY+ROBBERY+CHP+...
Here's 2.3 Trillion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo
Not to mention all the TARP banking bailouts. All of this money will flow to everyone but you. It will only flow to you if you decide to give in and work for the state or go on welfare.
So, at the end of the day, when they keep devaluing the Dollar so that it won't purchase anything anymore. When they keep taxing you and charging fees, even though you cannot afford them. When the bills keep stacking up and the government keeps getting bigger and bigger. You might think to yourself. "Why are all of these bureaucrats receiving millions for making the wrong choices, when, I have struggled to make all the right choices?"
This continuous socialist, fascist system will consume everything in it's path, including you and me. I hope you don't have to sit idle as the rest of the world receives all of your money as you struggle, crying over a bowl of Top-Ramen noodles.
No, this is a great idea, but why doesn't he stop spending
~ to pay for it instead of printing and borrowing the US into more debt. As goes California, so goes the other states.. and eventually the country.
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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy
"It is your duty as loyal Americans to Shut up."– Bill O'Reily
If you wont fight for the right when you can easily win...you may...have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival [or] when there is no chance of victory...it's better to perish than to live as slaves.
W.Churchill
Sorry, but I don't get it...
How can he "stop spending to pay for it"?
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
Stop government spending that doesn't work.
~ We send billions of dollars to Egypt a year and they vote against us 80% of the time in the UN. But it's not just Egypt it's hundreds of countries around the globe. What about the cost of wars we and occupation we don't need to be involved in. We bomb Korea and then rebuild their infrastructure, same with Iraq. Look at the dept of education. We have some of the worst test scores and graduation levels in the world yet we continue to dump billions into a broken system, and what happens? The test scores get WORSE and the graduation levels get lower. Washington needs to cut expenses in order to save money, then this saved money can be turned back around and given to states to rebuild.
Do you ever listen to Dave Ramsey? How does he teach families to, "Live like no one else now, so you can live like no one else later?" You cut spending, get out of debt. This is how you and your family can prosper, not by owing thousands of dollars to banks. Why is the rules different for Washington? Can you as an individual spend your way out of debt?
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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy
"It is your duty as loyal Americans to Shut up."– Bill O'Reily
If you wont fight for the right when you can easily win...you may...have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival [or] when there is no chance of victory...it's better to perish than to live as slaves.
W.Churchill
I agree
"Washington needs to cut expenses in order to save money, then this saved money can be turned back around and given to the states to rebuild."
All I'm saying is that this would take some time, even under the best of circumstances, and these are some of the worst of circumstances that Obama has inherited. I think that I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now, and I'll pray for his success in pulling us out of this mess instead of blaming him for the mistakes of his predecessors.
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
Another good reply - thanks lynn!
Well said.
um yeah
but if you have to ask, then its another sign you don't get it.
Thanks
for your help.
*****
Liberty, like Love, is Tolerant
sorry
feeling a bit cynical today.
when we had this stimulus methodology imposed upon our society in the past, it had limited short term success because of three main reasons:
a. we were a manufacturing nation, b. we exported more per capita, c. we were still tied to gold, despite confiscation of gold (residual trust and gold reserves). we were a savings/production based nation (lender). stimulus (printed or borrowed fiat currency), was not out paced by the growth created because of these three reasons.
today, we have neither a., b., or c. we are now a debtor/consumer based nation. our debt has lapped our growth several times over. the destruction of our currency is inevitable with any form of fiat inflation of the currency. we must halt and put into reverse all of the monetary policies we have suffered from since the inception of this system - the very system you are espousing a solution.
if that does not help, google money masters, a good peter schiff video, a visit to www.mises.org or www.silverbearcafe.org will bring you to a variety of sites.
again, sorry for the jibe.....know your money! peace