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Are You an Austrian, Axiomatic or Mainstream Economist?

The Mises Institute has distributed a list of 25 questions which purport to sort out Austrians, Keynesians, monetarists and Marxists. Apparently, in their world view, axiomatic economists do not exist. Many people have taken this test and almost all of them have been told that they are 80 to 90% Austrian. This would imply either that Austrianism is far more prevalent in society than hitherto suspected, or that the test takers were hoodwinked.

Actually, it is the latter. The Mises Institute is conflating Austrianism with libertarianism. Most of their questions are about jurisprudence, not economics, and are really just asking if one is libertarian. The 80 to 90% represents the prevalence of libertarianism in society, or at least among people who visit their site. The purpose of the Mises Institute’s test is to convince libertarians that there is no other economic theory compatible with their beliefs, not to convert mainstream or Marxist economists, who are assumed to be irredeemable.

In contrast to the Mises Institute, my test asks only theoretical, not ideological, questions. I assume that everybody taking it is more or less supportive of capitalism and the free market. (If you are a Marxist, you might want to read my Critique of Montagne rather than take this test.) I intend to sort out followers of the axiomatic, Austrian and mainstream schools of economic thought. By “mainstream” I mean concepts that are widely taught in the universities, not just Keynesianism. Austrians tend to assume that the two terms are synonymous, which is not true.

Take the 20-question quiz at Are You an Austrian, Axiomatic or Mainstream Economist?

Take the 6-question quiz at Short Version of Quiz.

Statistics as of 1 March 2009

All Answer Totals
Axiomatic = 308 || Austrian = 309 || Mainstream = 383 || Total = 1000

Statistics as of 18 March 2009

All Answer Totals
Axiomatic = 458 || Austrian = 437 || Mainstream = 609 || Total = 1504

Statistics as of 28 April 2009

All Answer Totals
Axiomatic = 626 || Austrian = 592 || Mainstream = 785 || Total = 2003

As you can see, unlike the Mises Institute, which turned their “quiz” into a propaganda tool to convince the sheeple that 90% of the other sheeple were also Austrians and, thus, it was nothing to be ashamed of, my quiz is for real. I honestly want to know what the proportions of Austrian, axiomatic and mainstream economists are. I knew that mainstream economists were the majority – if they were the minority position, they wouldn’t be called “mainstream” – but I really had no idea whether the Austrian or the axiomatic economists were greater in number.

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I enjoyed your quiz, but I

I enjoyed your quiz, but I think you confused the mainstream position on supply and demand with that of the Keynesian position. I don't think that it is a very good indicator of where one stands on the economic issues, but it is entertainingly crafted. I especially liked your use of this quote:

""Economic research? What research? All the research has already been done by Mises. All that is left is to explain Mises to the public… The theory of money virtually begins and ends with Ludwig von Mises' monumental Theory of Money and Credit, published in 1912… Before then it seemed that any attempt to apply marginal utility theory to money was inextricably caught in a circular trap… Mises, however, succeeded in solving this problem in 1912 by developing his so-called Regression Theorem."

I think it is a Rothbard quote because I have seen it once before. It sounds so dogmatic that I had to do a second take at Austrian economics as a whole when I first read it. Young Ron Paul supporters that venture over to mises.org need to beware of this sort of Randian-style black and white thinking.

Question 13 is odd. I agree with all three of the statements and they dont contradict.

Ventura 2012

Percy Greaves and Murray Rothbard

Percy Greaves writes:

Economic research? What research? All the research has already been done by Mises. All that is left is to explain Mises to the public… The theory of money virtually begins and ends with Ludwig von Mises' monumental Theory of Money and Credit, published in 1912.

Murray Rothbard writes:

Before then it seemed that any attempt to apply marginal utility theory to money was inextricably caught in a circular trap… Mises, however, succeeded in solving this problem in 1912 by developing his so-called Regression Theorem.

Question 13: Which of these quotations about fiat money do you agree with?

a) "The continuance of confidence in the banks after going off the gold standard is something of a psychological marvel."

This is a Rothbard quotation.

In the quotation above he knew about Mises' Regression Theorem, but here he seems to have forgotten it. Most Austrians do the same, so this is the Austrian position.

I could dispense with most of Mises' work, but his Regression Theorem inspired my third axiom. This is one reason why I wrote in my Critique:

It would be more accurate to consider Menger and Mises forerunners of this author’s Axiomatic School while making Hayek the founder (and Böhm-Bawerk the forerunner) of the Hayekian School. Menger, Mises and this author are the only truly subjectivist economists.

Thus, for this reason and because Mises’ praxeological method and his regression theorem somewhat inspired this author’s postulate set, I insist on claiming Mises as my forerunner and on asking the economists now called “Austrians” (e.g. Garrison and Skousen) to call themselves Hayekians.

b) "Fiat money has value because it had value yesterday and people assume that it still has value today. It had value yesterday because it had value the day before yesterday, and so on. This is described by Mises' Regression Theorem."

This is a quotation of mine. I discuss the history of money in my Critique of Stephen Zarlenga on the Origin of Money

c) "When we refer to fiat money, we are referring to money that exists because the government declares it into existence."

This is a Ron Paul quotation.

This quotation is mainstream; what divides Austrian and mainstream economists is whether it implies the rest of Paul’s statement: “History has shown that fiat money, or ‘faith-based currency' always fails."

The three answers to question #13 contradict each other: (a) is ignorant of why people do, in fact, value fiat money; (b) correctly explains why they value fiat money; and (c) falsely attributes the government with the power to cause people to value things.

Note: To discourage crib sheets, the order of the answers varies every time someone takes the quiz, so yours may not be labeled a, b and c as shown.

________________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com

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Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com

thanks for the explanation.

thanks for the explanation. I now understand your reasoning process when you chose those three quotes, but I think you could have picked better ones. (or just paraphrased what you want people to understand about the quotes while citing them).

Do you have any other embarrassing quotes by Austrian dogmatists?

Ventura 2012

The Prophet of the Great Depression

In The Prophet of the Great Depression, Frank Shostak claims that Mises was "clairvoyant."

Actually, Mises' predictions were not particularly amazing. If one reads only to the third paragraph of his 1923 paper, which begins "In recent months," it is obvious that he was describing the crash of the German mark, not predicting it.

This is not to say that Mises' 1923 paper is worthless. It is actually quite interesting. But he was not claiming to have predicted anything. He was just attempting to explain the events of the previous year.

See my paper, Did Mises and Hayek Predict the Great Depression?

________________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com

____________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com

LOL. I'm sure he didnt mean

LOL. I'm sure he didnt mean it "literally", but its still funny in the context here. I appreciate your critiques of Austrian economists, just to remove their god-like status in this movement so that we don't become so provincial.

Ok, I read the article. I think that a lot of the specific criticisms were nitpicking, but your overall point about Austrians is valid. If only they would do more empirical research, Austrianism would probably have been far bigger than Supply Siders in their heyday.

Ventura 2012

I just read your critique of

I just read your critique of the ABCT.

"Like Bush’s Iraq venture, the question is not whether ABCT should be abandoned, but how it can be abandoned, after so much blood and treasure has been expended on it."

I agree that there are many flaws with the theory, but it seems to be empirically valid as far as predictive power goes and therefore valuable in the Friedmanite sense. Someone, somewhere should be able to adequately explain the theory so as to include all instances of a credit induced boom/bust cycle.

Ventura 2012

Statistics as of 15 Nov

Statistics as of 15 Nov 2009.

All Answer Totals
Axiomatic = 1204 || Austrian = 1251 || Mainstream = 1548 || Total = 4003

So we see that the Axiomatic and the Austrian economists are running neck-and-neck for second place while the mainstream economists maintain a comfortable lead. This is to be expected; if mainstream economics were the minority position, it wouldn't be called "mainstream."

This demonstrates that my quiz is fair. It is ridiculous for the Mises Institute to try to convince people that 80 to 90% of economists are Austrian. Obviously, just a casual glance through any economics department will reveal that the proportions are a lot closer to my results.

________________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com

____________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com

Statistics as of 1 July 2009

All Answer Totals
Axiomatic = 899 || Austrian = 954 || Mainstream = 1147 || Total = 3000

________________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com

____________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com

Statistics as of 8 May 2009

Statistics as of 8 May 2009

All Answer Totals
Axiomatic = 753 || Austrian = 787 || Mainstream = 957 || Total = 2497

________________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com

____________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com

pffff

Shaka,
You stated that the Austrian school was headed up by homosexual pedophilic cultists as well as stated Ron Paul was too old to partake in the wine/little boys. Why don't you just leave?

This discussion of the issue

This discussion of the issue from Mises may be helpful to some as well.

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/1430.aspx?PageIndex=1

This is submitted again?

This is submitted again? How many times now? And it vaguely seems to be the same wording as well though I have not tried to find previous postings.

Not even saying resubmitting this material is bad. Just an observation.

The first time it got flamed.

That was distracting, so I thought I'd try, try again.

Also, I have stats now for 1000, 1500 and 2000 responses. Since posting this seven hours ago, the Austrians have closed the 34 point lead enjoyed by the axiomatists. It is now a dead-even race:

All Answer Totals
Axiomatic = 641 || Austrian = 641 || Mainstream = 821 || Total = 2103

________________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.sniperflashcards.com

____________________________________

Shaka, you so crazy! www.axiomaticeconomics.com