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This Saturday!!! CONSTITUTION CLASS with Michael Badnarik, University Club, St. Paul, MN. May 30th!!!!

PLEASE REGISTER NOW AT www.ConstitutionPreservation.org!

DATE: May 30th, 2009

TIME: 9AM - 6PM

COST: $100 (Each will receive Michael's signed book, 'Its Good To Be King')

LOCATION: University Club, 420 Summit Ave., St. Paul, MN directions:
http://www.universityclubofstpaul.com/gfx/MapSummitz.gif

REGISTRATION FOR THIS CLASS: www.ConstitutionPreservation.org

SEE MICHAEL'S FLYER:

http://www.constitutionpreservation.org/2009_flyers/090530_M...

In 2004, Michael won the nomination for Presidential candidate by the Libertarian Party against all odds amongst two other contenders: Hollywoods' Aaron Russo, and talk show host, Gary Nolan!

In 2005, he then ran for Congress in the 10th District ofTexas. Michael has studied the Constitution for 18 years and is a powerhouse on the subject. Anyone who has taken his class has come away with 'a great education' about the intricacies of our rights and our law in a deeper way.

He has self-published his book, 'Good To Be King: The Foundation of our Constitutional Freedom (ISBN 1-59411-096-4)

Here is a you-tube video of his class from 2003:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5085838350268647159

Wiki on Michael:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Badnarik

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Anisha, let us know

if Badnarik has plans to take his class on the road...I love that he's doing this and I hope it goes well in Minnesota, but me being me, I just don't know if we've got enough Americans in this country to make a difference. I know...I'm always looking past the silver lining right at the dark cloud! :):)

Devoted, as you can see by going to his website, he

has 'taken it on the road' for sure!

http://www.constitutionpreservation.org/

But keep in mind that is only because someone in those towns 'invited' him and made all the arrangements for the class. Its fun and very interesting. Like Michael likes to say, "Lighting the fires of Liberty, one heart at a time!"

Also, keep in mind, this country will be re-claimed by those who remain as sentinels to that which declares us 'free' - our own wills and spirits! People like us will NEVER ask permission from any government! Think stubborn.

Besides, we have nothing left to lose and everything to gain! If we will die, we might as well die fighting!

Personally, I will never be anyone's slave.

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Badnarik's a Lawyer right?

How can we have freedom under the constitution? At some point you will have to force them to comply, or accept your shackles. How can we force them to do anything? It's kind of hard to do, when they own all of the military, police, secret service, ect. They did it by force. You will NEVER have freedom under the constitution. The constitution layed a foundation of taxation and absolute control of law making by a ruling class. Taxation is a system of force. That means they own you. You have no choice. Where are you getting freedom in all of this? You can't patch this up or fix it. Taxation keeps this beast going. They NEED that CONstitution!! Your forced taxation, keeps it going! You think your going to get freedom from this, you think they are going to listen, no matter how much you ratify or amend???? This man is a lawyer, of course he wants you to believe in this!! he's one of them! Beware of all the reverse psychology, where they say, constitutional people are being profiled ect, they secretly want you to fight for your own enslavement! You can't fix a system of force. If you do, then you no longer have a system! Beware of anyone claiming you can get representation in a system of force or it can be repaired. They are either mislead, or misleading you on purpose.

I believe...

he's just a badass computer programmer. ;)

A man after me own heart.

Who said Badnarik was a lawyer?

Why don't you do some research before you go spewing illusions as if they are 'real'. The only reality is that of 'nature' and all its characteristics, NOT 'manipulated' man-made pretend 'theatre'.

For your information, its up to the people to know our rights and vigilantly protect and maintain them. When an American is empowered by what he/she knows to be 'right', one can take proper action when something is 'wrong'.

Oh sure, those who desire us to be their slaves are certainly having their time aren't they?

Perhaps you are looking for an excuse to be a coward. This process is not for cowards but for those who understand what principles of nature are within the given that for time immemorial, there has always been a streak in man to dominate another.

You are failing to make the connection that the founders had as they diligently balloted 60 times to arrive at the Bill of Rights! To these people it was like a science to strike the right balance between 100% tyranny and 100% Anarchy.

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

I was wrong on Badnarik, but

Right on the subject. Badnarik doesn't see. Anisha, you can't reform this. The system was written to enslave you. For crying out loud, the founders put taxation right under the preamble! They didn't define it either! Why?They wrote it in such a way, only they controlled the process of law making! Because they give you a vote, do you think this changes the way the system is run? If they take everything by force, and write the laws however they deem fit anyway, why would your vote count? How can you reform that? The only thing you are left with is a war in the end.
Im not looking for an excuse to be a coward. Do you think this is a popular idea, or something? Because I can assure you it's not.
I can tell you what a coward does, they continue to perpetrate a lie. Tell me how could this document ever restrain them, when it was written is this way? How are we in control? Cowards live in a lie. They don't look for the truth. They run from it.
The founders didn't write the document to give us freedom, they wrote it so they're children would control us. For they're bloodline, not ours. You merely have to read the preamble, to see this. Look at the way the preamble is written. Take in consideration, the capitalization of certain words, and how they phrased them. Then look at how they wasted no time, getting taxation established, right under the preamble. They also knew that, you can't have a binding contract, without the peoples signatures! They just needed to trick us long enough, to establish power over us. The founders had hundreds of slaves, they belonged to secret societies, and some of them were knighted by the king. They had to get the BOR established, because as soon as the colonists figured out the deception, they would have killed them. They needed the BOR to futher trick the colonists and live out the rest of they're lives.
Honest men would have allowed the people the choice of donations and charity, instead of taxation. Honest men would have had no slaves. Honest men would have had no secrets. Honest men would have given the common man property rights. Women the right to vote, and slaves freedom. I don't care what the norm was in those days.
How can the people know they're rights, when they think this is a free system? When they have been indoctrinated to believe they're vote counts? How could it?
The only way we will ever gain our freedoms is when people understand that they're rights do not come from a piece of paper. They are unalienable from the creator.
There is no way to enforce this paper without war.
The only way you will ever have rights, is if you assert them.
And, there is no way you can get representation in a system of force. The piece of paper is a lie, and it enslaves us.

Well, 2bfree, that was quite an effort to write all that. You

seem pretty hell bent on condemning 'those bastard founders'.

Well, for all your efforts you fail to convince me. It is true that the Constitution is not 100% perfect and Mr. Alexander Hamilton was a strong force of influence for 'centralized government', believing 'control' was important to establish over people and even suggested that George Washington be the first American 'King'. That was absurd to those very group of enlightened visionaries who wasted no time in letting Mr. Hamilton know that is not going to happen. Hamilton had 'monarchist' leanings and this was a huge concern to those who dreamed of liberty for the first time in human history.

The founders had a very unique world view which I will not discuss with people like yourself.

If anything, perhaps YOU could take this class that could give you something to 'compare' with your current mode of thinking.

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Anisha

Why do you dance around it so? TAXATION is a force, paired up with absolute control of law making, I already know... I don't need a class, I've had enough indoctrination to last me a lifetime.
Im glad you don't want to discuss flounders bs with ppl like me.
Saves me from having to read more lies or indoctrination from ppl like you.
They wrote favorably of Hitler and Mao too, you know.
Unique world view...lol.
And, I thought they only thought of taxation and control...
No one who loves liberty, would condone taxing people and they're labor, rendering them slaves.
I've already been on your side of thinking, I just didn't stay. Too boxed in for me.
You live in a forced system, and your constitution is the cause of it. Even if you set it all aside, how do you enforce those who trample on your piece of paper? with wars? bloodshed?
They're not going to stay between the lines Anisha, it's never going to happen. They are dependant on good ppl to follow the rules, they set up. So you keep playing the game while everything is slowly taken from you.
They depend on ppl just like you, to screw the rest of us too.
They teach you about the constitution.
Too bad they don't teach you, that it doesn't apply to you and never has.
You got rights alright, but you didn't get them from any piece of paper....
You will only get them when you fight for them. Not standing around waiting on men to do the right thing.
It's so funny that you think the constitution restrains them...LOL.
That's working real good isn't it?
Give up the piece of paper... It's not working. It never will.
It's time to teach the masses, they were born with rights, not gifted with them via paper.
Then maybe then the people wouldn't stand around wondering why they're elected are not listening and obeying the make-believe rights of the people.
Not realizing they live in a forced system, and you get no representation in a system of force, or rights.
All the flounders signed the document. They all knew it contained taxation. Now if they were for freedom, they would have left out the forced taxation and gave us a free choice. We might have gotten a vote or a signature on the document.

So, are you being paid to write this here?

Of course these ideas and rules are on a piece of paper. IT HAS BEEN LEFT UP TO THE PEOPLE TO STAND UP FOR THESE IDEAS AND RULE OF LAW! Apathy and cynicism, such as yours, has taken the place of honor. There is a revival of those ideas now taking place in case you haven't noticed.

That is NOT indoctrination, these are libertarian ideals for a 'free' society. Free from tyranny!

You can see the power of these ideas in action this day as all those of us who 'took a stand' for freedom by calling their reps and getting them on board with Dr.Paul's 1207!

You can see the power of these ideas in action each time Dr.Paul is called upon to speak with the talking heads.

You can see the power of these ideas in action each time Dr. Paul confronts a Federal Reserve thug.

You can see the power of these ideas each time there is a Campaign for Liberty gathering with many awesome speakers 'for Liberty'.

You can see the power of these ideas in action by 5,000 people joining the Campaign for Liberty in just one month!!!!! We now have over 150,000 people as members. That is enormously more than most lobby groups out there!

You can see the power of these ideas when a class such as this one given by Michael Badnarik as people line up to attend!

Where are YOUR solutions Mr. 2bfree! You chose a term to call yourself by, yet you are NOT willing to work for these ideas! Go your own way now and leave those of us WHO ARE DOING SOMETHING with these ideas, alone!

You seem to have attached yourself to a notion which is a weak one. It seems your 'pleading' is for socialism and world government. Otherwise you would be on board with the freedom fighters here. But you're not.

You would rather be a slave than risk ridicule, violence, or death.

Ideas matter.

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

The wrong ideas

Don't matter. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Your hoping for something that will never be. You will never obtain liberty or freedom, by depending on men to follow a piece of paper! or at the very least trying to reform a piece of paper that was written to enslave you, and alway's will. You can't reform that.
Your misleading people, by giving them a false hope, that somehow they're rights can be secured by a piece of paper, written by man! Whilst the man steals they're unalienable rights from them, because of this.
Whilst the ppl believe the lie, they believe they can reform the system, they have hope, and hope keeps the slave owners in business. There is no hope in this system.
The people must be taught that no piece of paper could ever give them rights! They are born with them, and if they want to keep them, they will have to fight for them, not standing around waiting on a centralized power hungry bloodline, to secure them, or trying to reform them.
I am here, because I don't wish to repeat the process of the lie, over and over, and one day it becomes too late. No im not getting paid, makes me wonder about you though.
Sure, your going to see some of the reps get on board. It keeps the illusion going. But there will never be a siding with the people. These guys work together. What you do to one, you do to all.
NO, im not willing to work for a lie or perpetrate one.
I am pleading for socialism? LOL! Now that's funny. It sounds like your the one, misleading the people into a one world government. Not me.
I don't care how many people are mislead into your little group. It won't change anything. Your dealing with the owners of the world here.
The only way to defeat them, is to stop believing in the lie. Kill the idealism of it. Stop the indoctrination.
Once people fully realize how much of slaves they really are, and how they got to be slaves. Then you will see results.
You have to kill the lie first.

Ok, so what are your solutions mr/ms. cynical?

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

I agree with this:

"It's time to teach the masses, they were born with rights, not gifted with them via paper."

Which is of course, the main theme of Michael Banarik's Constitution Class

The "flounders" created a more perfect Union. More perfect than what? The Articles of Confederation. The Constitution is about Rule of Law rather than Mob Rule.

I understand that TAXATION is in the Constitution. I understand that TAXATION is use of force. Isn't building a campfire use of force? And without control by the person that started the fire, the fire has the chance to grow beyond the intentions of its creator.

More than anything I understand that without the control of the "We the People," every government with or without the ability to tax will get out of hand without control.

YES, there is a need to control this government, and like you said, education is the key to this. I'm just saying because the Constitution isn't absolutely 100% perfect in every single aspect that you consider it should be is no reason to just scrap the thing. By that logic, no one should be able to ever build a fire again.

I'll stop ranting now and quote the words of Thomas Jefferson:

"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is, not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education.
This [education] is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."

Why teach

Something that is impossible to maintain, without war? Why continue to perpetrate a lie? Money? Fame? Pride?
No man will ever obey a piece of paper, when power lies on the other side of it.
I can stamp out a campfire.
Can you stamp out taxation?
Can you stamp out mans greed and nature to control another?
Logic tells me, there is no way, to be free while you allow another man to have power over you or vice versa.
Especially one who taxes you, owns your labor, and all you future bloodlines labor, and controls all the laws you are forced to live under.
Do you think they will just give this up? You can reform it?
They got it by making you believe you had rights via a piece of paper.
They got big by using force...Taxation. That's why they put it in there.They needed to get big enough to control us.
Do you really think the colonists would have went for more taxation? That's why we have the BOR! Remember, we were born with those rights. We didn't need a piece of paper, telling us we had them. So they used deception.
They made us think they were working in our best interest, to get what they wanted.
A giant plantation of slave laborors.
All the founders signed the constitution. They all knew it gave them the power to tax. They did not define it. Why? Because they had a plan, for they're posterity.
They wanted them to own all the slaves.

I'll ask again...

What is your solution then? You seem to view us as asleep sheeple and continue to point out the problem as you see it, yet you don't offer your profound brilliance of the solution.

Of course I can stamp out a campfire. What neither you or I can stamp out is a campfire that has been left unattended and has raged out of control and grown larger than was intended. When that happens, multiple people/efforts are needed to stamp out the fire.

So, what's your solution to the problem????

Whoever this 2b person is, seems 'to be' a distracting coward

because, as we have all seen, he/she does not provide solutions, just whines and expects us to accept his/her defeat, while he/she sits there and expects others to 'make his/her freedom for him/her.

Here is Sam Adams talking directly to you, 2bfree:

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”

Wake up Anisha

It's clear you have no idea what true individual liberty is Anisha.

Why do you insult 2b? Why do you demand that 2b be responsible for providing you with a solution? Can you not imagine a world where you, Anisha, are responsible for your own behavior? Can you not imagine a world where you, Anisha, don't use force on other people to get your way? Have you no awareness of the fact that your endorsement of government is an endorsement of the force it uses against everyone?

About that Sam Adams quote. You have no idea who he was talking about, do you? You seek solace and comfort in numbers and seek authority and power over others through government. And you think that Sam Adams was chastising people who were and are willing to stand up for individual liberty? You go ahead and be government's slave. May your chains rest lightly upon you.

What are you doing on this site if you are not an activist to

reclaim our American Republic?

Isn't there some kind of 'anarchist' site you can both join somewhere?

I, like many others here support a U.S. Constitutionally limited government. That is what this site was set up to manifest. Its a great outlet potential for activism.

So I ask you again, what are you doing here attacking those very people who are putting every effort into raising awareness of our sovereign natural rights and education that most were denied in these pathetic 'socialist' schools.

It seems people like 2b and yourself waste time and effort attacking those who are really doing something.

I read the same nonsense over and over on 'ruleoflaw's' thread. He/she says the same defeatist stuff over and over again without any solutions whatsoever!

Why don't people like you guys go channel your energies in more productive ends and leave me and others alone to do what we need to do.

I didn't bother you, and I didn't bother 2b! The only ones forcing anything are the both of you! You act as if I should accept such distractions. Absolutely not!

About the Sam Adams quote. He was referring to those who don't have the guts to fight the good fight. Who wittingly or unwittingly propagate the old status quo because they choose not to make efforts for the liberty of all! Attacking those very people who are, makes you my enemy.

However, I would much rather be friends, though. So why don't both of you cut it out already. If you have something to say then at least be coherent about it and quit trying to 'force' anarchy on those who clearly don't feel it to be very wise.

If you feel so strong about your views, make your own thread to allow others to respond, otherwise, you will have to accept the fact that not too many feel comfortable with anarchy. That was what the French Revolution got steered into. No thanks!

I'm trying to free myself from the chains of government

The path to my freedom is to allow you to be free. As for anarchy, don't let the fear of chaos cause you to misunderstand what anarchy really is.

Anisha, why do you want to use force to deny me what is mine? I wouldn't use force to deny you what is yours.

Alright, none. We will just have to debate until we can come to

understand one another's point of view.

I understand your sentiment very loud and clear. I can say with all my heart and soul I share that principle with you.

Where we diverge is here. I am saying, if we must have government, then it must be a government that will use force 'for the side of sovereignty and property rights only!!! Not for its own sake.

Agreed!

I love a good debate.

All you passionate liberty lovers in Minnesota!

Less than one week to go to sign up for this extraordinary class! Guaranteed to come away knowing more then you thought you ever knew about your sovereignty and rights, and our Constitution.

Oh sure, you can order this class on DVD or see it free on you-tube, but here is a chance to be part of a lively class and have your questions answered directly.

May not get this great opportunity again.

Thank you!

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Hasn't the Constitution allowed the govt. to get to today?

How have the 4 magical pieces of paper worked so far at ensuring the rights of every American?

The Constitution has not allowed this, apathetic citizens who

made the choice NOT to be politically involved, ALLOWED what we have today!

After the Federal government took over and created the Dept. of Education, we saw the downward trend of uneducated Americans.

This, together with such an upsurge of Marxist/socialism/feminism introduced within the cloisters of most Universities and Colleges country-wide, one has to wonder at some top down organization agenda.

Is this a conspiracy of Bilderberg, Tri-lateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations? Read it and weep.

The compartmentalization of our most important part of education - our civic duty to protect and uphold the Constitution, has clearly been usurped.

Most adults today and students in the United States do not even know they have unalienable 'rights'!

Most don't even know the difference between a 'right' and a 'privilege'.

Hence, I believe it is important as a grassroots movement to re-educate the populace.

Was it not Jefferson who said the following,

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

" Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty"

"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."

"Information is the currency of democracy."

There is no Democracy

In a forced system. The constitution laid a foundation of taxation and absolute contol of law making, by a ruling class. It created a forced system. Taxation is forced apon you. How dare you blame the people for not being politically active! like they have a choice. The only choice you have in a forced system is the illusion of a vote...and you really don't even have that. When everything is taken from you by force, tell me, why would they have to give you representation? They wouldn't !!! The founders blah blah blah, the founders were a bunch of elitists securing liberties for they're own bloodlines, not yours. WAKE UP.

Just as the Constitution cannot give you your rights...

It cannot allow the Government to become corrupt.

Only "We the People" can allow the Government to become corrupt.

"Those who refuse to understand politics will be forever ruled by those that do understand politics." - G. Edward Griffin

Americans (and I'm not pointing a finger at you) have lost touch with the responsibilities that go hand-in-hand with their "rights." If you want a "right" you must accept the responsibility of protecting that right.

There is no piece of paper that can endow a human with rights. Just as there is no piece of paper that will constrain Government.

The Constitution was written to restrain Government. The "people" are here to enforce it. We aren't enforcing it.

Wrong.

The constitution was written to create a ruling class over us. Right under the preamble it started to lay the foundation of taxation and absolute control of law making by them. It was written to restrain us, not the other way around, as we have been taught. It created a system of force against us. You can't fix a system of force, without bloodshed at some point. I am opposed to bloodshed. This is why I am opposed to documents of it's kind and it's minions. It's people's belief in the constitution, that keeps them enslaved by it, you know...if only I could get so-in so in there, or I could run, ect. It doesn't matter, what pawn you place in there, your still going to be extorted from ect. No force, No system...especially at this point, it's too bloated and too far gone to even allow the people a free choice now. There is only one solution, let it fall, and replace it with nothing. Wipe off the fiat labor debts, allow the people to be free.

Well hey then...

What's the solution? You have pointed out the problem (time and time again) on this thread...

What's the solution? I mean obviously you see us as a bunch of asleep sheeple, so, enlighten us with your profound knowledge.

I've seen the Badnarik talk

I've seen the Badnarik talk on YouTube before ... although admirably pro-Constitution, he seems a bit off for my taste. His interpretation on the minutia of property law had me wondering if he had been buried in the books studying for too long.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

Could you elaborate a little more on "his minutae of property

law", and why this had you wondering......what exactly?

What is it that you disagreed on?

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

I'd love to, but I'd have to

I'd love to, but I'd have to revisit his video to give you my exact misgivings... and that I'd rather not endure.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

Michael Badnarik at End The Fed in Philadelphia

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=17937

Imagine learning a lot of what he knows.........

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Very strong interest in this class! Thanks everyone for bumps!

The more people we have that know their rights and all its intricacies, the stronger the candidates we shall foot from this pool!

"Lighting the Fires of Liberty, one heart at a time!" - Michael Badnarik

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Dr. Ron Paul wrote the forward in Michael's book,

'Good to be King - The Foundation of our Constitutional Freedom'

Will start reading this tonight! Can't wait. Looks like a fantastic book written by such a tireless activist for Liberty!

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Congress should be required to take this course,

hell, every public servant should be!

Love Badnarik?

He is a new national leader of the We The People organization. If it is good enough for him, is it good enough for you?
Please get involved.
givemeliberty.org

Location is now established!

See above thread for details

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Thank you guys!

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

bump for

positive action.

Just keeping this visable, thank you!

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Love bump for Badnarik

***
Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Best $ EVER Spent, Informative, Entertaining, a Real Eye Opener!

Michael graced us with his presence in Philly for End the Fed, then he taught the course on Sunday, the day after the Rally. This class is a must for EVERYONE! We love the man.

robpatozz
www.trueworldhistory.info
www.campaignforliberty.com
www.endthefed.us

I can't wait!

I'll be there for sure, and I might have a few more.

It's not very central for the entire Twin Cities area, but I could rent the community room at city hall in beautiful downtown Osseo for a good price... ;-)

Thank you! I will keep that in mind if I run into

a problem.

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Thanks, everybody for letting me keep this posted!

"The courage of one man is a majority" - Andrew Jackson

Online!

Video that and post it up! those of us in Alaska almost never get opertunities like this, I'd love to attend, but watching a video of it works too!

----------------------------------------------
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

And his 2003 class

And his 2003 class here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5085838350268647159

??

oh well, I guess I still have the 20 hours of sunlight.

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato