Atheists: no God, no reason, just whining
Submitted by Ruth on Sat, 06/06/2009 - 04:26
Superstar atheists are motivated by anger -- and boohoo victimhood.
By Charlotte Allen
May 17, 2009
I can't stand atheists -- but it's not because they don't believe in God. It's because they're crashing bores.
Other people, most recently the British cultural critic Terry Eagleton in his new book, "Faith, Reason, and Revolution," take to task such superstar nonbelievers as Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins ("The God Delusion") and political journalist Christopher Hitchens ("God Is Not Great") for indulging in a philosophically primitive opposition of faith and reason that assumes that if science can't prove something, it doesn't exist.
My problem with atheists is their tiresome -- and way old -- insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What -- did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?
Read Dawkins, or Hitchens, or the works of fellow atheists Sam Harris ("The End of Faith") and Daniel Dennett ("Breaking the Spell"), or visit an atheist website or blog (there are zillions of them, bearing such titles as "God Is for Suckers," "God Is Imaginary" and "God Is Pretend"), and your eyes will glaze over as you peruse -- again and again -- the obsessively tiny range of topics around which atheists circle like water in a drain.
Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-allen17...
I still would like to know
I still would like to know why a person is offended by something that does not exist ?
yes ???
see to your liberty
Why did you revive this
Why did you revive this thing?
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
Moderators! Can you please
Moderators! Can you please give this thread a decent burial?
I am not an atheist, but I relate to their compalint
I go to GOP meetings. Someone says "Let us pray." Now, I don't generally pray in public, but I try to get along and I TRY to pray, which for ME is more about inner silence and seeking guidance. About that time, someone starts talking out loud, explaining to their Creator what is going on on earth and what the Creator ought to be doing about it. OK, I find that whole thing a bit arrogant but at least it is NOT my prayer, it is theirs. Then they close it off with "In Jesus' name we pray."
That is not right. I do not invoke deities. Period. If only Christians are invited to pray, then the opening line needs to be "Let us pray to Jesus" then I can leave the room, as I do NOT want lumped into that group.
It is rude, it is offensive, and it is a lie. It seems like people who are praying would want to be extremely honest - they are talking with their god. Unless they have taken a survey and made certain everyone is indeed praying to Jesus, they ought to close with "In Jesus' name I pray."
If Christians had to endure the constant onslaught of Muslim ideology, perhaps they would be more understanding. Hang on, that day will be here soon. When you get snookered into a prayer and someone closes it with "Praise Allah" I wonder how you will like it.
WHO...
keeps responding to this crazy thread?
The definition of Athiest is someone who refutes the idea of "God".
"God" is defined as being supernatural, associated with "goodness", and having human characteristics.
All That Is is the most that "God" can be.
All That Is is more intelligent, omnipresent, magnificent and awe inspiring than one can imagine.
Everyone knows that All That Is is bigger than them.
Just like everybody knows that the human body is far greater than the human mind. (The mind does not beat your heart, breathe your air, fight your illnesses, grow your limbs, drive your hunger, feel your physical pain, or drive your sexual impulses.)
The body is far more intelligent than the mind.
All That Is is far more intelligent than the body.
The human mind is puny compared to All That Is.
So All That Is is not something that can be beleived in.
The supernatural cannot be proven, it is a belief, so therefore, All That Is is not supernatural.
"Goodness" is a judgement. All That Is just is. It cannot be good or bad.
All That Is is far beyond the human mind. The human mind tries to filter All That Is through the mind but it is impossible. All That Is needs no human characteristics.
So NOBODY can be an Athiest.
Those who try to filter All That Is through the mind made belief systems need to quit thinking so much and learn from the so-called Athiests.
This is my explaination of All That Is, in so many words.
So what? Who cares? I really don't. Will anybody read this nonsense? I am addicted to having what I say mean something.
Someday, my life will be reduced to a dash between two dates on a tombstone.
whoop di doo!!
mind body dichotomy
The body isn't more intelligent than the mind. Neither can exist without the other in their natural state. Your premise is false and your logic isn't sound.
"I am addicted to having what I say mean something."
Really?
the body
is far more intelligent than the mind. Animals do just fine with relatively no mind.
Is that the only part you can poke holes in?
Come on, give me more.
"Animals do just fine with relatively no mind."
WHAT? REALLY? What the heck is your definition of a "mind" then? While we may be more intelligent than many animals -- maybe not all -- it's crazy to say animals have next to no mind.
Emotion comes from your 'mind', right? Are you saying animals have no emotion?
--------
Fossils Rock!
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
instincts...
is how most creatures live the majority of their lives. They do not think, they just act. They are completely in the present moment. They do not worry about the future or carry old baggage. In a sense, they have no suffering.
Remember Pavlov's dog? He responded from conditioned response. Not from deductive reasoning. So Pavlov deduced.
I think animals must have some sort of emotion. I had four dogs last week. This week I have only three and one of them has moped around for three days.
Do emotions come from the mind? I do not know.
"They do not think"
OMG. Absurd. Humans can be conditioned exactly the same as Pavlov's dog. There is no difference in the mind of the human and the mind of the animal, just different degrees of mental capacity.
Humans ARE animals. The more advanced animals have all kinds of emotions, happiness, sadness, mourning, anger. You see that in your dogs, but don't recognize it?
--------
Fossils Rock!
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
i agree....
fossils do rock!!!!
Humans have A Soul animals
Humans have A Soul animals do not ..Your soul is controlled by your BELIEF system that everyone chooses, or aquires over time.. Do you know of any other animal or creature that has a belief system ? If you do please specify.
yes ???
see to your liberty
Your argument is based on
Your argument is based on your opinion..and personal belief..not actual fact...You are NO better than any other living creature..Nor any more important..As a matter of my own personal opinion..we humans are beneath other animals because we are a plague..None of us have a soul..Regardless of my opinion or yours..What was the purpose of digging this crappy thread out of it's grave? Arguments?
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
I observe my own animals
Animals appear to have belief systems in that a chicken scratches is places she knows will produce insects, not by instict, but by experience. A cat might have an instinct to trap, but my cat is herding the chickens... appearing to have a belief system, not an instincy, but a belief that I will lose favor with the cat over the chickens... the cat's instinct would have it kill the chichens, eh?
Some people find soul mates in animals.
Animals have souls, as animals make choices and take risks, and they may think I'm "god" in that I produce food and shelter and even love them.
To claim an animal has not a soul is a form of specisism, where you think one animal is better than the rest. Or that a soul is like feathers or fur, one has one or not. But I believe all living things, even plants have souls and some souls are more developed, or developed as fur is to feathers to hair, which even plants have been known to have... least I forget scales.
Unapologetic Specisist
Some animals ARE better than other animals.
Cheetah is a better sprinter than man.
Man is a better mass killer than any other vertebrate.
Human rights and morality are inventions of human intelligence.
Morality is predicated on survival -- personal, filial, and cultural.
We recognize human rights because we're family.
Gaia Vindice
Sic Semper Tyrannis
I Don't Care.
I don't care what you believe. It's not my business. If it makes you happy, that's good enough for me.
NOW can we go have a beer and talk about baseball?
The fact that you ,DO
The fact that you ,DO BELIEVE makes you different from any other animal species.
yes ???
see to your liberty
Only if we're talking about
Only if we're talking about how great the Red Sox are!!!!
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
Any other animal could give
Any other animal could give a s-it less about the RED SOCKS.
yes ???
see to your liberty
I liked the article raised some good questions.
It also pointed out that fact that many people are true believers on the atheist side of things. A true believers being someone who can not accept any challenge to their belief system, without well anger, or indignation, and also because of their belief think that they are smarter than everyone else.
A true believer does not
A true believer does not gain insight from their own belief system .They are mearly reflecting or supposed to reflect God's belief system. I'm not angry with you & neither is God..God provides the way to escape the inevitable human frailty.
yes ???
see to your liberty
You are not refuting atheism...
Hitchens may be an angry type... and rightly so, religion and its damaging brainwash is no longer to be tolerated in the 21st century.
As for Dawkins, he truly is the soft-spoken, contemplative and aloof genius type, the fact that you group him up with hitchens is puzzling.
Even if what you say had any truth though, your observations would still be besides the point.
If you want to argue that god exists, feel free - you have not done so in your post and I do not believe you can. Whether Hitchens is angry or Dawkins tiresome, however, is of no consequence to our lives or the truth value of their arguments. Your failure to see this is revealing.
http://actiontrigger.no-ip.org/
My point
was not to refute atheism, and neither was Charlotte Allen's (I didn't write this). I posted this to let atheists know their believer bashing is not helping their cause, and if they want to be taken more seriously and be better accepted by society, they need to find more positive ways of presenting themselves and their ideas.
why
are you putting atheists in a box together. Atheists are individuals as are you. Collectivists like to box people into groups and play them against one another for their own benefit. We should all be careful not to fall into that trap.
Fair enough
But I think it would benefit the atheist movement if the moderates spoke out against the extremists who claim "religion is a mental illness" and "raising one's children in a religion is a form of child abuse," just like it benefits the moderate Christians and Islamists to speak out against the words and acts of their extremists.
Well said.
and I appreciate this thread Ruth, thank you. Regardless of anyones position, it provides a balance for discussion. Gotta have both sides to the coin : )
So, are you part of the solution or part of the problem?
From the title of your thread, I'm not sure I need to ask that question.
That's easy
I'm part of the solution.
Sure, if our problem is not enough collectivist and divisive
threads.
Good job.
Read the posts
With few exceptions, the people posting here are discussing things calmly and coming to agreements.
As you know, Ron Paul attracted a wide range of supporters with a myriad of ideas and opinions. If we are to work together, we need to work out our differences as well as celebrate our similarities.
It seems to me you think censorship is a better idea. If you find this thread to be so offensive it shouldn't be talked about, then why are you here bumping it? Myself, I ignore the threads I don't approve of completely so they'll go away.
Spin it however you wish, Ruth.
Anyone that places people into groups and calls them "whiners" needs to do a little self-examination.
Censorship?
Oh no, post away.
You are doing the movement SO much good.
I didn't call anyone a "whiner"
Did you bother clicking on the link and reading the entire article I posted? Charlotte Allen included the word "whiner" in the title of her piece, which is why my thread is named what it is. If it offends you, I apologize, but it was this piece I felt best summed up how believers who are weary of being accused of stupidity for believing in God feel.
I don't know how many times I need to explain this, but here it goes again: I don't care whether or not anyone believes in God, and I would like to see atheists better accepted, but I don't see how that happening if they insist on being combative, and I'm not saying all atheists are like that, but I'd like to see the reasonable atheists direct their movement toward presenting themselves in a positive way so everyone can benefit from the diversity the atheist movement can bring to society. What's wrong with that?
If they weren't your words, they should have been in quotes, but
what's the difference, really? You posted it as if they were your own.
"I don't know how many times I need to explain this..."
Apparently you aren't communicating your message effectively.
"I would like to see atheists better accepted, but I don't see how that happening if they insist on being combative, and I'm not saying all atheists are like that, but I'd like to see the reasonable atheists direct their movement toward presenting themselves in a positive way so everyone can benefit from the diversity the atheist movement can bring to society."
Although I disagree, that would have made a much better post.
Don't ask for something that you, yourself, cannot give: respect.
No I didn't
People on the DP often use the names of the articles they're posting as titles, and they don't always put them in quotes. The author's name is clearly featured at the top of the post and a link is provided at the bottom so the reader can reference the original article. It's not my fault you're unobservant and prone to jumping to conclusions.
Don't blame your poor English skills on what others do.
You posted it incorrectly. You wear it.
O.K.
If it's so very important to you, I'll let you get in the last word.
Now THAT was funny!!!! LOL
Now THAT was funny!!!! LOL
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
I believe in god....
.....just not yours.
fnord
fnord
i'm a practitioner of
i'm a practitioner of jeffyanity. i worship naked ladies and heineken!
--
"Master Blaster runs Bartertown!"
--
"Jeffy likes apples." -Jeffy
--
BUY CHINESE!® (like you have a choice)
--
Osama is your enemy not mine! Leave me out of your little spats!
and you will go far in life
and you will go far in life there jeff.
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
my thoughts are that if i
my thoughts are that if i don't believe in biblegod, why the hell do i need to read someone else's book to convince me of what i already think?
"When I said I was an atheist, I meant I don't believe in your god. I never said I didn't believe in my god! -Jeff White
--
"Master Blaster runs Bartertown!"
--
"Jeffy likes apples." -Jeffy
--
BUY CHINESE!® (like you have a choice)
--
Osama is your enemy not mine! Leave me out of your little spats!
You Guys Gonna Love This
No one is born an atheist! Which means, you learn it from someone or a multiple of people. Did you stop before I finished that thought?
For example, "in my very young life, 'little kid"', and I mean little", it was being taught by my parents that, "words have no meaning"! Was it being taught consciously by them, well, you could guess that possibly they didn't know what they were doing or didn't care or both.
Which means, I learned that their words have no meaning, you get the idea, they stunk as parents! Course, that can stem into all relationships, etc.
Anyway, you may be an atheists now, but, for a fact, you were not born that way! You learned it by an experience or a multitude of experiences!
This is the good part, I've said before that I don't generally listen to the words in a song, guess where that came from? Anyway, extended through my teen years into adult hood, I found a good purpose for it. Most of the words in songs are junk anyway!
Laugh, so, if you don't think that I listen to ya, well, guess why..
Very independent, even from independents.. there is good stuff on this side of the river. Who knows what good stuff lies within being an atheist, there probably arises or has arose escape routes, you chose and or choose not to take, possible because you are comfortable being different. "you don't want to be like them", that sort-of mentality.
There is a good chance that you look-down-on-people, thinking your intellect is superior. People take pride in the most unusual ways!
In my teens, mostly late teens, I took pride in doin' drugs, you know, bein' cool, hip, with-it, etc. Drugs are fun but they soon can become a horrendous nightmare.. Bein' deceived is not amusing!
Carry-on..
Everybody is born an
Everybody is born an Atheist...You don't believe in a god until you're taught to...
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
So So
The homosexuals claim that they were "born that way". So, atheist and homosexuals are in the same group here? Any others fit into this group, how about "corrupt politicians", were they born that way? Murderers, were they born that way. Or, is it the possibility that lies within each and every one of us? Any other lifestyle(s) "born that way"?
I doubt that "all" homosexuals and-or "all" atheist claim "they were born that way". Why don't you admit that you "made that choice"? Then, you would have to admit, "that you had a choice"?
There is a difference between "having the 'potential' to 'become' that way" and being born "to be that way".
What about "a free will", only certain individuals have that? Where does a person learn about a "free-will"?
Is this "being born that way" just an attempt to justify your choice? You know, an attempt to make the world as you would have it and not how it is?
Reality is not for sissies!
I really don't much care if you're an atheist! But I have a right to protect myself! Yes, stuff like that can, rub off! Protecting myself!
I'm pretty sure you're not
I'm pretty sure you're not making a lot of sense here...If you are responding to what I said, let's clear it up because you are either misinterpreting what I said or fixing it to suit you...I said that everybody is born an Atheist because you don't know of a god until you're taught it... The homosexual thing doesn't even need to enter this conversation..but because it has..I will say yes..that most gays are born that way...My brother is gay and seeing what he has had and still has to deal with..I can attest to that...Murderers..I'm sure some are born that way..it's called a chemical imbalance..you can't refute that..Not all people are born without problems whether they be mental or physical...Now..to admit that I chose to be Atheist..yes...I did choose that after learning about religion and also about science and biology...but I didn't know of either sides until I learned of them...Your post seems very defensive..Is there something you would like to discuss? And you're right..reality is not for sissies..that's why I choose to live in reality....
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/
May Upset Some People Here, Maybe Not
In complete neutrality, neither God nor the lack of God (atheism) would be understood, both of 'em would have to be taught. You wouldn't have knowledge of either.
Whether you agree with that or not, you will have to admit that the subject is unavoidable sometime during a person's lifetime, an adult person's life. A person has to decide at sometime in their life what their going to do with this thought of God.
During an atheist life-span, you still have to deal with the existence of God.
You see, there is a "war in heaven"! We, the earthly creatures are being held captive because of this war. The God Of This World Is Not God! The God Of This World degrades all things pertaining to God, including religion. Religion(s) in many cases are corrupt, which turns many people away! Isn't this really the argument of atheist? that religion is corrupt?
That deal was made before we were born, before man was created. Many people in religions think that there speaking to God directly when they pray. Often times, these prayer's are intercepted before they can reach the One True God! The God Of This World intercepts them, he is in competition with the One True God! The Real God forces The God Of This World to answer them, but often times, it's done in hate, difficulty, conditions. This deal was made before we were created. The God Of This World turns God's Word into hate, unfortunately, a person has to go through The God Of This World to reach the Real God. He acts as if he is God! He uses what he stole from the Real God. He has supernatural power similar to God, of lessor! That deal was made before us, it's used as a test or, at least, part of the test-a test. It is a rebellion, you, all of us, directly and indirectly are a part of this rebellion, conscious or not of it.
In other words, The God Of This World makes your journey as difficult as possible to reach the Truth, temporarily!
May be a slight flaw in this but most generally, it's accurate! Yes, some people are more prone to go this-a-way- or that-a-way regarding any subject or personal behavior. It's a part of this "war in heaven", the war started before we were created! They have the advantage! They are greater than we are, they are of a greater creation! Humans are secondary! and inferior!
Were you born from force? Go, figure, did you, I choose to be born? War in heaven! Force!
From Goo-Goo-Ga-Ga to God's Great Glory
Babies also have to grow up and mature in their thinking. ;)
Stop the attacks.
How embarrassing.
wrong.. same way homos are
wrong.. same way homos are not born queer/...
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
You and this crap again..Get
You and this crap again..Get over it..you were born queer..You can't change that....I think you have something on your chin....
http://www.lp.org/
http://mises.org/