Anti-Vaccination Madness - Stop & Listen!
This is an appeal for sanity and reason.
There is a lot of misinformation and outright nonsense about health, vaccinations and viruses circulating among the revolutionaries. It is hurting us because it distracts us from important issues at hand and it damages our credibility at a time when people are starting to pay attention.
We are getting a lot of misinformation from the government and from the MSM. That is one thing for certain. But at the same time, we are starting to pick up a lot of nonsense and fear mongering of our own, and it is time to recognize error in our midst and get it stopped.
I have worked as a veterinarian for 29 years in the United States and later in China. I do have some practical understanding of bacterial and viral diseases and of the importance of nutrition in animal health. Humans are special animals and the same principles apply.
Presently we are being disturbed by the falseness of a supposed threat of a flu pandemic, and the waves of this are running through our group and coming back to us on the other side as a different sort of nonsense.
Here is what I believe to be true:
1. In 1918-20 there was a serious influenza pandemic that was worldwide and killed about 5% of the world's population.
2. The A:H1N1 strain also infected pigs during the 1918 outbreak, and seasonal flu outbreaks have been seen in pig populations and human populations ever since.
3. The flu virus mutates fairly rapidly (as compared to some other viruses) and thus it is able to survive in the human population and find new victims.
4. About 36,000 people in the USA die from influenza and its complications each year. Some are normal healthy people but most are those who have other health problems that cause them to succumb to the flu virus.
5. The flu is caused by a virus, and viruses require a host in which to replicate. The flu virus can be grown in labs in tissue culture cells. The virus does not replicate in manure pits.
6. Because the flu virus is preserved at cold temperatures, and because people are in closer contact in closed air spaces in winter, and because cold air reduces the resistance of the respiratory tract, there are seasonal outbreaks of flu. Chance mutation and chance development of large susceptible populations can lead to outbreaks of flu.
7. The current popular strain of flu that is getting lots of press and lots of attention from the WHO and the OIE actually seems to be pretty much of a dud as flu viruses go. There have been far more pathogenic flu viruses that have not become famous at all. This one certainly does not by any means deserve all the press and attention it getting.
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FACT:
Vaccination can be an effective deterrent to many important and deadly diseases. Vaccination against smallpox using the cowpox (vaccinia) virus has eradicated smallpox from the planet. Smallpox virus should be have been on the endangered species list, and it's a wonder that there has been no public outcry from the likes of PETA over the demise of the once great Variola virus. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
Fact:
All vaccines can produce adverse reactions in some people. The rate is low, but when massive numbers of people are vaccinated, the numbers of adverse reactions accumulate. 1 in 10000 becomes 100 in 1 million, thousands when millions are vaccinated.
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Today I received by email from entirely different sources information claiming that all vaccinations are not only worthless, but BAD for you.
I also received email claiming that "we have on our hands a mutating virus in Swine that was specifically designed to resist any vaccine put on the market. Further the catalyst to spur on the infection may very well be the new vaccine about to be distributed & forced on the general public."
Let's call it what it is -- SPAM.
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It's not true that vaccines are bad. Vaccination has helped control many deadly diseases. There are negative reactions to any vaccine in a small fraction of any population. It is an unfortunate truth. The additives that are in vaccines, such as formaldehyde, aluminum, preservatives, organic mercury are there is such small amounts as to be utterly disregardable. The jerks who are continually SPAMMING us with misinformation are after our attention and our money, and they need to be ignored.
There is no master plan to Weaponize the Swine Flu virus by vaccination. That is a silly hate rumour. People should know better than to repeat such silly nonsense.
We are being lied to by the powers that be, and they are continually jerking us around and drawing us into foreign wars and stealing our ambition and the fruits of our labour. This is no time for us to be distracted by sillyness and rumors that arise from a few highly motivated spammers.
output
Spare me from the experts who wish to rule my life!
It is frightening to me that someone who claims to believe in liberty would put forth the thought that we must all be vaccinated for the good of the "herd" even if some of us chose otherwise. This is nothing more than tyranny masquerading as reason.
History is strewn with "knowledge" that has been abandoned in favor of new discoveries. Look at the long held "fact" that stomach ulcers were a result of poor diet and stress, when now the "fact" is that they are caused by a certain bacterium.
We all should understand that people who are "experts" are those who have been indoctrinated with "knowledge" and perpetuate that "knowledge"; indeed if they were to abandon what they have been taught, they would lose their status as an expert and the income related to the implementation of their "knowledge".
I do not know if vaccines are good or bad for people, and I doubt that the originator of this thread really knows either; he sees the world through his indoctrinated mind. I do know that vaccines are a relatively recent experiment of the medical profession, and the true cost cannot be measured only by the deaths of those few who violently react after being vaccinated. And there is also the broader question of how vaccines may be keeping alive those who otherwise might have died, thus weakening the species.
I think that anti-freedom messages such as those put forth in this thread are far more damaging to this freedom movement than is the anti-vaccine message expressed by some of us.
Facts aren't allowed...
Remember the shills have to use and dazzle us with bullshit, because facts are a foreign thing to them. Very true at that.
Facts
Your post is interesting and wise. But this part drew my attention: "Look at the long held "fact" that stomach ulcers were a result of poor diet and stress, when now the "fact" is that they are caused by a certain bacterium."
Recently, everytime I see the word fact, I think facet (as in aspect or one part of a larger picture and story).
The fact is most events are the result of a confluence of factors coming into play. In the case of stomach ulcers, poor diet and stress seem to be primary causes, the presence of the bacterium seems to be either a corollation or at most an auxiliary cause.
Facts are highly limited.
Leeches
Suck the ailment right out of you.
Or so the "EXPERTS" once said...
wrong
study health, not sickness
all the concerns of everyone on both sides will be solved
A good resource
http://www.defeatautismye...
Yeah, it's autism-specific, but it carefully addresses what a vaccine actually does to the immune system in the Immune 101 section.
This is a Dutch source, and finding it in America is becoming harder and harder.
IOW, a lot more information than this guy knows.
The Daily Anti-Vaccinator Strikes Again
Gardisil, Tamiflu, Guillain-Barre, Vaccine trial kills homeless, etc. etc. etc.
These people REALLY need their own forum, preferably somewhere off the front page.
Maybe even on another website.
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An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
Natural Law and Natural Rights
http://jim.com/rights.htm...
The posts to which you are referring
are links to credible sources. It seems to me you're advocating censorship because you don't appreciate the content.
There is plenty of evidence ....
that better hygene and nutrition were responsible for the elimination of smallpox, and quite a bit of evidence for the harm vaccines cause. So, If my child becomes deathly sick, or loses her hearing in one ear, or my son becomes autistic after a vaccination , I should just have to deal with it?! Frankly, I would much rather have the choice my self . I will have no problem keeping my non-vaccinated children away from your public -school indoctrinated children.
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Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make..
Libera me......from this dark dream, to the life-stream! --Leslie Phillips
What's next after End the Fed? Repeal the XVI and XVII Amendments!
Consider the 1962 smallpox outbreak in the UK
before you fully convince yourself that it was all sanitation and nutrition and that all vaccines are bad.
There is some risk in vaccination.
Take another look at your link
http://www.pubmedcentral....
I guess you didn't bother reading this sentence: "The Pakistani child (who was the primary case) had apparently been vaccinated in infancy and revaccinated along with her mother and father in December 1961, but there was no satisfactory evidence the vaccine had 'taken'." The outbreak had been started by a vaccinated child!
If you read further, it also says, "In the Bradford outbreak where 280,000 were vaccinated (either primary or secondary) many experienced minor symptoms and at least 6 (4 adults and 2 children aged three months) had symptoms severe enough to require hospital admission. Only one of these died...Unfortunately, 3 children died after clinical diagnosis of vaccinal encephalitis..."
So, twelve people contracted smallpox in this outbreak and six of them died. Four more died from the vaccine. Regnad Kcin would most likely look at the statistics and conclude not only was vaccination warranted in this case, but the U.K. made a mistake by abandoning its smallpox vaccination programs in 1902 the first place. Others would look at this and draw other conclusions. It's simply not that cut and dry.
i think that most of us know what a vaccination for smallpox
that has "taken" LOOKS like as compared to one that has not taken.
Geez.
But
that still doesn't do much to support your case vaccinations prevent disease outbreaks. Consider this list of quotes from peer reviewed journals referring to outbreaks in fully or highly vaccinated populations: http://www.wvve.info/issu...
Geez.
Regnad, is there some reason you are avoiding...
..Devon Saunders' post below?
Here's an express link: http://www.dailypaul.com/...
i thought that ironman77 had addressed it adequately...
so I thought there was nothing to respond to further, but here goes...
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One study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that the incidence of meningitis in children vaccinated against it was five times higher than in unvaccinated children.
I cant seem to find that one. Reference please?
you'll love this one:
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It is an undisputed fact that tuberculosis vaccinations have had absolutely no impact on the incidence of tuberculosis.
FALSE.
The BCG vaccine is about 80% effective, and should be used in countries with a high incidence of TB. BCG is not used in the USA, as the incidence here is low.
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Diphtheria vaccination programs have been followed by unprecedented diphtheria epidemics among the vaccinated populations. In Germany during World War II, diphtheria vaccinations were made mandatory. The Germans experienced an immediate 17% increase in diphtheria cases and a 600% increase in mortality. At the end of the war, the vaccinations were stopped. There was an immediate and dramatic decline in the number of cases, despite widespread malnutrition and poor living conditions.
The USA experience and the Soviet experience after vaccination stopped does not support any of the claims above.
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In the U.S., it is officially accepted that, since it's inception, the polio vaccine has caused all cases of polio.
FALSE.
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In October 2000, at the annual meeting of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), a resolution called for an end to all government-mandated vaccinations. Even more astounding—the resolution passed without a single dissenting vote. Dr. Jane Orient, executive director of the AAPS said this: "Our children face the possibility of death or serious long-term adverse effects from mandated vaccines that aren't necessary or that have limited benefits." The AAPS's resolution read that "mass vaccination is equivalent to human experimentation and subject to the Nuremberg Code, which requires voluntary informed consent..." By failing to inform us of the dangers, and taking away our power to choose otherwise, mandated vaccinations become a crime against humanity."
TRUE.
The "AAPS" did issue such a statement. I do also believe in voluntary informed consent. Dr. Orient is also a strong supporter of Dr. Paul, same as me. I like Jane Orient and wont say anything against her. My issue is not with those who say that some vaccinations are unnecessary. That's true and Obvious.
My issue is with those who say that all vaccines are bad and toxic and say that vaccines never work. That propaganda produces "involuntarily misinformed dissent"
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Dr. Vera Schreibner, a world authority on immunizations and author of Vaccinations, had this to say: "Immunizations...not only did not prevent any infectious diseases, they caused more suffering and more deaths than any other human activity in the entire history of medical intervention." Having assembled the world's largest collection of data on immunizations, Dr. Schreibner concludes: "One hundred years of orthodox research shows that vaccines represent a medical assault on the immune system." Research by Dr. Schreibner and others continues to unveil the alarming truth about vaccinations; here are some further examples: Pertussis vaccinations have been followed by cases of "provocation polio." This kind of polio is well known to follow almost any vaccination, but especially pertussis and polio vaccinations. Measles is another case in point. Measles constantly occurs in vaccinated populations. In fact, there is even a new and especially vicious form of measles called 'atypical measles.' It affects only vaccinated populations and is apparently the result of a deranged immunological response caused by the vaccine. New data reports sharp rises in diabetes among children vaccinated for meningitis. A recent article in Newsweek attributed the AIDS epidemic to oral polio vaccine given between 1957 and 1960. A growing number of researchers are now attributing the epidemics of childhood cancer, leukemia, asthma, autoimmune disease, cerebral palsy, infantile convulsions, and sudden infant death syndrome to vaccinations.
I refer you to ironman's post refuting this.
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You made a point, opening a debate. I am posting a rebuttal.
Would you care to address any of these points, or are you, as an animal health care professional, just going to put these points to the wayside?
Give it a shot and let's see where it goes. I'm perfectly fine with being proven wrong. After all, that is how rational adults learn new things.. by being wrong.
Your turn at bat here buddy.
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This was Devon's rebuttal you are responding to, but...
I have to say I'm a bit confused by the part in your response where you say you believe in voluntary informed consent.
I'm confused because it seems from your comment below that you're all too eager to pull the "greater good" card out of your back pocket, obviously aimed at those who do not want to consent.
In #2 below you say, "there is a "herd effect" of vaccination which means there is a shared interest
Then in #3 you say, "where there is a shared interest in a community, then absolute freedom of individuals does indeed have to submit to a greater good, whether we like it or not."
Express link to that comment: http://www.dailypaul.com/...
Please tell me how you reconcile having to submit to the "greater good" with believing in voluntary informed consent.
I'd like to know that, too
Regnad Kcin, please, tell us how you reconcile having to submit to the "greater good" with believing in voluntary informed consent.
It's simple. If U r3ally are "Informed", you voluntarily make
the right choice. Some people think that given informed voluntary consent, the right choice is to refuse vaccinations. I think not.
Of course if you believe that epidemiology and statistics and immunology and pathophysiology are all a collection of lies and deceits designed to trick you into surrendering your life and individuality, and that all vaccination is quackery and deceit conceived for the purposes of filthy lucre, then you aren't really "informed", but rather just simply "deceived".
All this barrage of anti-intellectual nonsense about formaldehyde and aluminum and thiomersal and autism and genocide and depopulation and weaponization of swine flu vaccination hardly constitutes "information".
Don't you think that people would make the right choices if given access to sound doctrine? Telling people that vaccinations "never work" and are "always harmful" is deceiving the people, not "informing" them.
What I said was along the lines of this -- Those who walk in liberty do have responsibility to others in their communities. No person is an island. Libertarians do tend to forget that and only think about themselves. I dont tell anyone that I am a libertarian. They do tell me that I am a libertarian.
Matthew 20.24-28:
You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men hold them in subjection, tyrannizing over them. Not so shall it be among you; but whoever wishes to be great among you must be your servant, And whoever desires to be first among you must be your slave— Just as the Son of Man came not to be waited on but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many, the price paid to set them free.
So that's how you reconcile the two?
You determine that someone who does not consent must either be not really informed, or must've been misinformed?
Why in blazes would you think someone would have to be told vaccines are "always harmful" before they'd decide to not consent to running the risk of having adverse reactions, or being injured or killed by vaccines. (not to imply that these would be the only reasons someone might not consent...)
Do you not understand that regardless of whether vaccines may or may not sometimes work, a person might choose to not consent if they have deemed that the risks are too great and outweigh any possible benefit?
Regnad, nobody owes it to you or anyone else to indulge in a game of vaccination Russian roulette.
In other words
you don't believe in informed voluntary consent at all, because according to you the only correct "choice" is to vaccinate, and you reject any legitimate reasons to decline vaccination, no matter how sound, because you're indoctrinated to believe there's only one correct "choice." You don't believe in informed voluntary consent at all.
It's interesting to me you would quote the new testament. Vaccinating is in conflict with Christian beliefs, which is part of why 48 states of the union allow religious exemption to vaccines: http://www.know-vaccines....
Vaccination would reasonably be declined by informed
voluntary consent where there is reasonable doubt of the need for the vaccination, efficacy of the vaccination, and/or reasonable evidence that harm will result from the vaccination. I make no claim that people react reasonably nor rationally, but I do believe that if people are presented with the facts, most will choose to vaccinate for the basics.
Statements that vaccination is never necessary, never efficacious, and always harmful are fallacious, silly, and harmful. I make no room for the validity of such views. However, government cannot coerce anyone into having a lick of sense.
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You state that vaccination is in conflict with Christian principles. Please provide 2 or 3 scripture references supporting that statement. Thank you.
I hate to bump this again
But apparently you didn't bother looking at my link above.
The Bible demands one maintain a clean body and spirit, and we do not mix our blood with others' or the blood of animals:
2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Leviticus:19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen [plant] and woolen [animal] come upon thee.
Luke 13:1-2 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them. Suppose ye that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans, because they suffered such things?
Ezekiel 16.6: And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
A conflict arises if you believe that man is made in God's image and the injection of toxic chemicals and foreign proteins into the bloodstream is a violation of God's directive to keep the body/temple holy and free from impurities.
The cultures are grown on animal parts from monkeys, pigs, cows canaries, rabbits, chickens or guinea pigs, so a conflict arises if you accept God's warning not to mix human and animal blood. And, for those of you who are strictly pro-life, be aware the cultures are also grown on the lung cells of aborted fetuses.
off track.. maybe
Rednad Kcin thisi s what you said..."Those who are enemies of liberty, the authoritarians who favour more government control will and do point to the Antivaccinationists as evidence why the people cannot be trusted to make their own decisions."
I dont usually participate in these discussions and back and forth stuff.. BUT...I really do not care if any one else is "for or against "
THE POINT is....in my humble opinion..
.IT IS MY CHOICE to have one or not........NOT SOME GOVERNMENT AGENCY..ISNT THIS THE REAL ISSUE HERE?? FREEDOM OF CHOICE ?
.I am on the side of "dont get it".. because I ahve done the homework....and my logic tells me that if I get this I'm not in my right mind !!
however, if someone else has or has not done the homework and made a choice either way........THAT'S STILL THIER CHOICE ...
You can argue this forever.on the pro's and con's of why it is or is not safe
..but we here are interested in the freedom.isen't that the main issue ??
If it isen't.forgive me.. I thought it was ...
there has to be some absolute inner truth that motivates.
Someone ought to care whether or not the truth is going out...and if people are making decisions based on fear-driven falsehoods drummed up by these anti-intellectual antivaccinationist neo-Luddites, we will all suffer for it.
it is important because
1) the antivaccinationists are making false statements that can be very hurtful as I pointed out in regard to what happened in the post-collapse Soviet Union
2) there is a "herd effect" of vaccination which means there is a shared interest
3) where there is a shared interest in a community, then absolute freedom of individuals does indeed have to submit to a greater good, whether we like it or not.
4) the only way we will move forward with this freedom movement is if we get more numbers of people into the fold. If there are obvious glaring problems with the message it will drive people away. Antivaccinationism and its close relative antifluoridation are unscientific nonsense, deep error driven by paranoia that will indeed drive people away. No one will want leaders who cant figure out and discern the difference between truth and error...
I had been sitting on the sidelines for months watching this circus and finally decided to get into the fray. The 2010 election season is started already. It is an opportunity if we have the message figured out in time.
...you say...
..."3) where there is shared interest in a community, then absolute freedom of individuals does indeed have to submit to a greater good, whether we like it or not".
...Is this to say that submitting to mandatory vaccinations is the only thing a person can do when mandatory vaccinations are imposed...?
...Is there ever a time when a person could refuse to be vaccinated, if so, when...?
...you say...
..."antivaccinationism and it's close relative antiflouridation are unscientific nonsense, deep error driven by paranoia that will indeed drive people away".
...if flouride is so good for you, why do toothpaste tubes have warnings on the back saying if you swallow more than a pea-sized amount to call poison control center...?
...if flouride is so good for you, why do they have to wear hazardous chemical suits when it is added to our drinking water...?
...if flouride is so good for you why is it banned from use in drinking water in a growing number of countries, and why is there a ever growing coalition of people, nationwide, working to stop flouridation here in America...?
...if flouride is so good for you why did the nazis use it in prison camps to make the inmates more docile...?
...the truth is you cannot forceably medicate a person against there will...be it a vaccine or flouride...
...the truth is, the efforts to mandatorally vaccinate, and the flouridation of our drinking water are going to soon come to an end and those responsible for there implementation will be brought to justice for the crimes...
...you may not be aware, but after awhile, after the same crimes have been committed over and over, both history and the victims eventually reach a point were the evidence of the crimes being perpetrated on them are so overwhelming, the only natural recourse is to stand against them and defeat them...you are witness to this...you will not subjugate a free people...you just need to understand that...
and if fluoride is so good for you
Why does it increase the risk of osteosarcoma in young boys five times? And why does it make bones brittle and more susceptible to breaking? It seems the same effect that petrifies the tooth against cavitation also encrusts the bones so rigidly that they are no longer a properly functioning part of the organism. So if fluoride is to be used at all, it ought to be as very small amounts in tooth paste, never in direct consumption.
I disagree
double post
I disagree
You want to the truth to come out?
The herd effect is invalid. The heard may want to jump to cliff. The Herd may want to elect Bush, then Obama. The Herd can be wrong.
You can have personal choice taken away for the greator good. There is no greator good on this planet than personal choice.
You move forward by refining your logic an resoning not by watering your message. What you laid out in your steps is your plan to enlarge the freedom movement by being less free.
I agree with you on on point, there is a ton misinformation on vaccines. Just look at the posts on this topic. People will hold religiously to their beliefs, despite what evidence may include. That is their choice, and I will die to defend it.
It's not herd decisions or herd mentality
but herd immunity which is a statistical phenomenon not a psychological phenomenon. Herd immunity has to do with the chance of the spread of a disease within a population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
Good luck on dying to defend error, if that is what you propose.
Let's replace belief with knowledge of the truth.
If Herd Immunity
Means immunity from the decisions from the herd we agree.
There has never been and likely will never be a disease that will wipe out the human herd.
That said, if you refuse certain vaccinations others have the right to refuse to be in your presence. If vaccinations are for the public good, then they should be public reccord.
Taking away choice is not an option. It is like taking away guns for the good of the herd. It just does not work regardless of your intentions.
The theory
of herd immunity is as about as scientifically sound as the theory of human caused global warming.
that's just plain silly and is no refutation.
you can't demonstrate anthropogenic global warming but the concept of herd immunity is readily demonstrable, and it is also evident in the time phase of flu outbreaks. see the reference linked above.
It can apply
to a population that becomes immune to a disease because they contracted that disease and survived it, but vaccines do not impart longterm immunity. The manufacturers of the vaccines themselves say they don't impart lifelong immunity. You're comparing apples to oranges here.
Good stuff Ruth
The OP is confused on what herd immunity is and how it happens. She is also confused on what vaccinations can do for people. Thousands of people get the flu months after they are vaccinated for it. Hence they are not immune.
Yet there are people that are immune from HIV.
Thanks
And I think you and I are on the same page when it comes to wanting everyone to be able to decide for themselves whether or not to vaccinate.
Yep
There are vaccines my children get and there are ones that they do not. I decide not them. Their Doc gave my wife a hard time once when she requested they not receive certain vaccines. I showed up the next day. I doubt that doctor will give anyone a hard time again.
The OP is scary with her herd mentality. Like most people in the herd they are told to be afraid of some thing and run with the herd, not thinking about where they are going or if the end is more harmful than the beginning.
Yep
There are vaccines my children get and there are ones that they do not. I decide not them. Their Doc gave my wife a hard time once when she requested they not receive certain vaccines. I showed up the next day. I doubt that doctor will give anyone a hard time again.
The OP is scary with her herd mentality. Like most people in the herd they are told to be afraid of some thing and run with the herd, not thinking about where they are going or if the end is more harmful than the beginning.
...I'm not a "her"...and it's "herd immunity" not
herd mentality. LOL
Herd immunity means a general increase in immunity level across a population, and that can occur whether it's natural immunity from infection or "induced immunity" from vaccination. The duration of immunity affects the duration of any herd immunity. I posted a link to an article on the "reproductive ratio" of disease (Ro). I suggest that you take a look at it.
We successfully used vaccination plus management and sanitation to eliminate Aujezsky's Disease in Illinois. The concept has been used over and over again. It's pointless as well as futile and JUST PLAIN WRONG to try to deny that herd immunity exists and is important.
"induced immunity"
from vaccinations? There's no such thing! The most a vaccination can do is provide temporary protection (the manufacturers generally claim five years) from an disease in a certain percentage of people (the manufacturers generally claim 80-85 %). That's not immunity! Immunity is imparted when a person contracts a disease and recovers from it, and that immunity is lifelong. Lifelong booster shots are no substitute for that. Vaccination is not immunization!
Not off track at all
Freedom IS the main issue, but Regnad Kcin isn't in favor of it. Thanks for calling him on it.
its not just about freedom if you are wanting to be effective
its also about truth. Yes Ruth if you want to believe the antivaccinationist line and propagate it you have the freedom to do so, but why? With liberty comes responsibility.
The truth is
vaccinations are understudied. There are no studies concluding the levels of toxins in them are safe. There are no studies proving there is no link between the increase of vaccinations on the federally mandated list and the increase in many conditions once uncommon in children, such as SIDS, severe allergies, asthma, cancer, diabetes, arthritis, obesity, etc. There aren't even any studies comparing the health of vaccinated children to unvaccinated ones, and that would be a very simple study to do!
The truth is we don't know the truth! That's why it's so important patients and parents have all the information so they can make an informed choice about whether or not to vaccinate. And no, Regnad Kcin, you don't get to be the ultimate authority who decides what is valid information and what is not. Go ahead and be a vaccine apologist if you like, but remember, with liberty comes responsibility.
Your word choice
There are studies that say they are generally not harmful. When you say safe, you are using a relative term. Driving your car is not safe. Owning a gun is not safe. All these depend on your relative meaning of the word safe.
In general vaccines are very likely directly and indirectly kill some people. The number will be less than those they save.
It is a cost/risk factor every one must decide for himself and their family. The Neo Nuts on both sides should just stifle it.
You don't know that
No one knows for certain how many people vaccines are saving and how many people vaccines are killing. There's not enough scientific study available to make the claim more people would die than live if we stopped vaccinating.
want to know the beginning of vaccines
go here:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
This Anti-intellectual Nonsense against vaccination
is nonsense in a pretty package. Don't be deceived by this antivaccinationist propaganda.
Your statement settles it, right?
If the vaccines work, those who get vaccines should have no worries about those who don't.
Your idea of bringing in the "herd immunity" collectivist bullshit to try to find a back door to create the impetus for forced vaccination is crap and is dangerous to free people.
That sort of behavior indicates SHILL and also indicates that you are a threat to free people.
If I don't want to take a vaccine, that's that. You take your vaccine and you're "safe". Leave me to be me.
Your roundabout authoritarianism ain't wanted in the liberty movement bro.
Fight disease through health, wellness, diet, proper sleep and proper sanitation. Pumping chemicals is a bullshit answer.
They don't know if it is the swine flu
It may be the medications
Could not make it as an MD
Huh?
that's silly as well as uninformed and baseless.
I chose to go to veterinary school. medical school or graduate study were both available to me and I chose my career path. It was not by default.