About the "Constructive Criticism" Post
Submitted by hawkiye on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 23:12
I didn't care for the post much but I don't think it should be locked or censored. We need to know what people are thinking. It might of been a troll, or someones own way of trying to fire up the campaign however ill contrived.
Regardless of how poorly it was done IMO we can't cover our ears and sing la la la every time someone posts something negative. So please take a breather and come back later back before you flag anything and everything as offensive.
We can take some heat lets not be so reactionary every time someone post something we don't personally like. After all Dr. Paul is running on freedom and liberty even if we don't agree with others.
My 3 cents...
Lame
My original user name was banned. I reposted the article after it was pulled down in a matter of seconds. I also sent a personal note to Michael. I did not agree with everything in the post but there were some real valid points in it that I have been having concerns with. I sense there is something festering and that article addressed it. Why cant we discuss that there are allot of out here that are breaking our backs and our banks for RP and there is nothing wrong with questioning if they have the most competent people running their campaign? I for one would love to see some real pros in there instead of a bunch of 24 year olds. Seriously, why do we need an email from a 24 year every other day asking us for money. We are doing so much. What is the campaign doing. Do they really want to win?
Thank you
for keeping this a clean site for the entire family to read and post.
G_d bless
Attend a Church of your choice this Saturday.
G_d bless
LOL..
I should go to bed...
Please obay the owner of the site.. post with care.
Hello Friends,
I set this board up as a place for Ron Paul supporters to communicate with each other. Anyone can read and post to the board. To post, you must first register:
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Feel free to post your comments, links and anything else you'd like the world to know about here. I ask that you follow these loose guidelines:
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Please be nice and follow Dr. Paul's living example of kindness, respect and humility. Let me know if you have any questions.
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Any of the following will be sure to get you banned without warning:
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In the end, anything I decide that reflects poorly on Dr. Paul and/or sullies the good and peaceful name of Ron Paul supporters is not welcome here. At the end of the day, this is my house. I set it up to honor, respect and promote Ron Paul's bid for the Presidency. Play fair and you're welcome to stay. Do not abuse what is offered.
Welcome aboard a magical journey!
Best regards,
Michael Nystrom
Editor
www.dailypaul.com
OKAY - REPOST WITHOUT EXPLETIVES
Okay, if everyone says the post was bad because of the language, then I invite the poster to re-post without the foul language. THEN will everyone let him keep it up?
testing one two three......
I will not
First of all I did not author the OP. I found it interesting so I offered it for consumption here because I thought the freedom loving people of dailypaul could handle or else use their browsers back button after they read THE FIRST SENTENCE. Which was '***WARNING ADULT LANGUAGE*** I see someone used as a chance to get even because I contradicted them on another post. Oh well. Censorship at its finest.
Now that is as childish as complaining about the language.
I backed you up for the content of the message - if you dont want to remove the foul language then that is childish also... so now your message will no longer get posted for anyone... how much did that accomplish?
The reason is
I would have to cut and paste it from its original webpage then go through and edit. I havnt time for such absurdities. If these people cant handle it its not my problem. I will email you the link. If you want to do it, go ahead.
Then
Post it on your own website, give a link, and say, "This link will forward you to a place with adult language."
It has been stated time and again that the language does not belong here.
If I say, **WARNING ADULT CONTENT** and then post a bunch of porno images, it would be taken down immediately.
-James
Then should all the other posts be labeled...
***This post will lead you to fluffy bunnies and happy Kool-aide induced thoughts where we never disagree or get emotional about the fate of the country.***?
Or, ***WARNING - JESUS WOULDN'T APPROVE OF THIS POST***?
We're at it again.
No one said anything about fluffy bunnies.
Did the founders of this country have only fluffy happy things to say to each other? Did they argue about a ton? Did they even get so downright POed that they shot each other in a duel?
Did they use foul gutter language in the Declaration of Independance? Does any of their recorded written word use such trash? Or do they keep it to the issues, not to a contest of who can use the most colorful and creative use of gutter language??
Is it REALLY so much to ask not to use vulgar language?
-James
I was going to ignore this topic but....
Yes the founders of the consitution did use foul language when arguing, in fact fights broke out and recesses had to be called...and yes there was even duels fought over the language... this has been documented.
In the public eye?
Lets take this private, shoot me an IM on Skype or AIM, name is James2039.
-James
I've said my peace...
James, really no need... I've said my peace and going to bed.. obviously the poster does not want his message read badly enough... so lets forget it...
Um
Was the post a bunch of porno images?
For those with no mental imagery
I'll try and not use metaphors for this discussion again or assume my point will be understood.
The point was that posting, **WARNING, THIS HAS ADULT CONTENT** does not subtract the adult content, which is not allowed here.
Let me try again, posting a "WARNING, THIS CONTAINS SHILLS FOR OTHE CANDIDATES" and then repeatedly plugging Giuliani should be taken down as well as it has no place here.
Post a link to somewhere off the site, but as this is private property, the owner has asked for no foul language. Given the immense benefits this site has brought the campaign, isn't it the least you can do not to post items with foul language?
-James
Censor was fine with me
The language was not only foul and sexual but it was attacking Ron Paul with profanities.
If any of you think it is OK to use your freedom of speach to use sexual language insults against Ron Paul, let me tell you its NOT OK.
The person who posted that was not a Ron Paul supporter. Couldn't you tell?
Ron Paul is an extremely brave man who is risking his life to spread a great message. He deserves better then that.
I didnt see any profanities AGAINST Ron Paul...
The damn thing was pulled so quickly I could bearely have time to read it and I wanted to look it over AGAIN and I couldnt because of trigger happy flag as offensive people.
I remember seeing some bad language but it wasnt directed at Ron Paul (except perhaps get some balls thingy) but heck thats not bad.
The post had merits and shame on everyone for deleting things... you know what is really offensive and we are not a book burning mob here are we?? Use anything offensive and you are banned - then dont read any modern day literature... sheeeshhhh...
I only hope Michael is looking at WHO IS DELETING WHOSE messages.... and seeing who the banners are.
Just dont create even more stereo types...
By usage of speach.. You can hurt the campaign.. I for one do not mind negitive posts.. but I do not like the idea that people associate me with sexual refrences, racisim etc.. Its fine for you to be as foul mouthed as you want.. but I dont want to be associated with it so I will flag when I think appropriate.. If you dont like it go and post Ron Paul stuff like that on Ronpaul2008 main page.. See how long it last on it .. go try..
Arent we all consenting ADULTS HERE....
As far as representing Dr. Ron Paul... I think we are all consenting adults here... take a listen to the Richard Nixon tapes... I bet the campaign itself uses foul language in meetings... I bet they argue big time about what is best...
I would surprised and bothered if they all when in, straightened their ties and say YES YES YES I AGREE YES YES YES...
I would love to listen in on one of their campaign meetings .... LOL... just for grins...
This was not Funny
There is no place for sexually foul language directed at Ron Paul.
No Place at all.
What I got to read and remember
From what I got to read and remember as the thing was jerked so fast it was hard to re-read, the foul language was not directed at Ron Paul... but used in other contexts to express himself... Now If people cant handle such words starting with f and s then they didnt have to read the article. But I agree to pull it down if there was foul language directed at Ron (but I never had time to make sure because it was pulled)... but not directed in another direction... attacking campaign does not equal attacking Ron Paul...
let him repost without the offensive language..
hmm
Wait, you're saying you don't remember what it said...
why are you pushing so hard to get it reposted?
Look, the author can rephrase how he describes the issues and repost it, or do the polite mature thing and send the email directly to the Paul campaign who would actually ADDRESS his concerns.
Because you don't remember, I will refresh your memory. Yes, it DID have slurs directed at Paul's campaign which were sexually oriented. As his campaign is an extension of his self, these are directed at him.
You can say the campaign is awful, needs work, yadda yadda. But do NOT start bringing sexual references here. We are NOT all adults on this forum, it is public and a reflection on Dr. Paul.
-James
trashing campaign....
trashing campaign vs trashing Ron Paul is not the same thing and thats my last word on this topic... and the way the language was used was not in a pornographic context... I would be the first person to delete just outright poronography... but sigh,,,, the issue is over with anyway as the original poster says he will not re-post with less foul language. To that I say, that is as childish as getting angry over having it deleted... If you really truly do want to get the message across, then deleting some of the language will not lessen the message...
so there, slap the hands of both sides....
Dupl
icate post
SORRY, reason not good enough...
Oh come one.... you post the comment and then you edit it... I dont have anymore support for you after that lame excuse...
No one
Has said ANYTHING about trashing dissenting opinion.
As proof by your prescence here along with mine, desenting opinion is allowed, but lets keep it respectful. This is a PUBLIC forum, not a private meeting. Trashy language is the first step away from a movement towards an uncontrolled riot with the riot and interpersonal relationships taking first hand against the main original goal, that of getting Ron Paul elected.
If you disagree with the way Dr. Paul does things. POST IT, but remember you are voicing your opinion, not trying to whip the masses into a fury of dissent.
-James
I agree with Mike
This is the best way to run the site, with flagging. We've hurt Dr Paul a few times with really bad posts that the media got ahold of so instead of the news talking about Dr Paul's positions, new people see the media coverage about negative comments from radical so-called Ron Paul supporters. Leave it alone because the site is a really good site right now and we have to be very careful about the content of our posts. Ron Paul would never condone some of the horrible posts that have been on this site in the past and we do, in fact, represent him.
Maybe I'm old school but I
Maybe I'm old school but I don't think the f-bomb is acceptable as a written word. Totally acceptable as an utterance though.
my mom, sister, grandmother will be ..
Impressed by the company we keep.. Use your words wisely or you speach may put people off no matter what the critism says..I am not against free speach at all.. I am talking wisdom.. and they put the flag thier for a reason..
They put the flag there because some hired anti-Paul hands
came in and did exactly what they were supposed to do, create a place where people would cry like children for censorship and control, and inundated Mike's inbox with cries to ban and delete.
You'll notice that we haven't had such an incident since. You people got suckered because they played you on your "holier than thou"ness, and you bought it hook-line-and sinker.
it shouldnt have been CENSORED...
Some people are getting writers cramp hitting the flag as offensive button so much... LOL.... I think the article had good merits and bad merits but I thought the censorship buttom was for A. directing foul and abusive language towards a member of the family in the house of Michael... or B. a message obviously left by a troll...
We do not censor because we disagree and frankly I thought the poster had some good points.
Its time Ron Paul starts hitting home runs instead of single bases... he needs to start standing up to the other candidates positions and pointing out their weaknesses....
He should turn to Guiliani or Romney or McCain and teach them to disrespect the DR. LOL....
When you run for president
You can run your campaign any way that you like but this forum is for Ron Paul and we need to represent him in a respectful manner. If you don't like it, there are other forums that you can post whatever you want. Dailypaul is listed under "News" and some of these posts are not news.
Much like...
Your post.
If given the opportunity
I would have flagged it as well. I'm sorry, while I agree with the post's message in a number of areas, that type of language is intolerable.
Assume your grandmother will read these posts, as my grandmother does, and that her opinion will be at risk here.
We can be excited, we can be proud, we can be ticked off, but we CANNOT degrade ourselves to that sort of language.
I'm furious about the debate as well, but lets use it to fuel action here.
If you think Ron Paul should get out there more, should work harder, then by all means CALL THE CAMPAIGN OR EMAIL THEM.
Posting that steaming pile of garbage here is for one thing only, personal satisfaction. Attention. Power.
This forum isn't here so you can stroke your own ego. If you have criticism, offer it politely. If you're going to send a nastygram, send it to the campaign so they can respond in a private manner. Don't try and start a riot, it's embarassing.
-James
James.... the language....
Hey, people get passionate... some people thats all they know how to do is fling in a word or two as FRIGGIN emphasis.... we are all adults here, I have seen bad language used in good posts and its not flagged....
Passion?
Passionate does not mean taking leave of good judgement.
Crimes of passion are solely an excuse for someone too weak to control their impulses. The reference to the genitals I could probably have done without.
It was used for a specific purpose. That post could have been well written, well composed, and well debated. Instead it was filled with absurd language meant to spark anger for retribution and enflame a crowd, much to the writer's delight. The objective of "Getting Ron Paul to be more enthusiastic" was completely ill served by the post. Posting that on a message board will not get Ron Paul to play hardball, it will just get people pissed off.
We love Ron Paul because he does things HIS way. Not because he's influenced when someone gets angry.
And again I restate, the writer was eloquent enough to present his examples well, he is a strong enough prose writer to avoid cheap overused gutter words for emphasis.
-James
I agree 100%. We can't
I agree 100%. We can't become the "our way or the (super) highway" crowd. That would be completely contrary to Paul's message. Individual freedom, means we should protect even the most vile comments, and rather than ignoring, ridiculing or banning people, we need to reason with them.. We don't want to become the MSM.
NOW, if the language is just for the purpose of using profanity or name calling etc then that is a different story.
www.ronpaul2008.com
www.teaparty07.com
www.ronpaul2008.com
Damn Good Point!
crackers4paul
Guys, we have got to quit being so reactive to every criticism. We should stand strong but maturely answer criticsm. It's about freedom, not censorship. We are better than the msm. Just do like Ron and tell the truth, it seems to be kicking ass for him.
Mc Kool Kill
It was a vile post
We should not let the forum devolve into sexual refrences of body parts etc.. Learn to epxress your criticisms in a CONSTRUCTIVE way.. not demeaning to people who have erectial disfunction etc.. A little common sence. I would not want this forum to become strewn with filth which represents the Dr. Please have some decency. This forum is for people interested in Dr. Paul not for people who use sexual language to talk about the campaign.. sorry the poster was way off base.. I am sure Christians that come here would love to read that post and go.. hmm perhaps they are all like this... etc...
I dont think it was vile.... it was expressive...
Oh come on - sexual based language my A$$.... that is the most lame excuse for hitting the flag as offensive button yet. We are adults... we dont have to read it if we dont want too.... I have NOT FLAGGED anyone yet, but have sat back and watched it being used over and over again some someone is flaggin trigger finger happy and now I know who one of them is.
If you find sexual connotations disturbing then stick to your bible and dont read ANY MODERN DAY LITERATURE.... even Stephen King gets wild sometimes... all modern day literature uses the f word the s word etc...
sheeshhhhhhh..... that is the lamest excuse yet to delete a message!
I didnt realize
Micheal Nystrom sold this site to an authoritarian moralist.
I think that the word that you're looking for is...
Theocratic elitist.
But we've been down this road so much lately and we all know that the "God Squad" knee jerks and abuses the hell out of the "flag" option. Clearly they are morally above getting emotional and speaking their minds. It really must be a blessing to be that saintly. They get into heaven first you know, those that click the "flag" button first.
Wankers.
I flagged it due to its content
It contained foul speach. Sexually explicit speach.. Please some civility.. I am not against CONSTRUCTIVE Critisims.. I am against speach that lowers the debate to foul language which is inflamitory and rude. Sorry just my take on it.. It was patently offensive.
You flagged it because...
I took you to task for be a communist apologist. Its spite plain and simple.The very first sentence was a warning for adult language. Grow up. Track any of my other posts and track TimC and you will see who the troll is. In fact one of my posts is one the four that are stickied on the front page Debate among people of the same stripe is essential to learning and growth within our movement. Those that attempt to censor it do not have our best intrests in mind.
I flagged it due to its content
It contained foul speach. Sexually explicit speach.. Please some civility.. I am not against CONSTRUCTIVE Critisims.. I am against speach that lowers the debate to foul language which is inflamitory and rude. Sorry just my take on it.. It was patently offensive.
pathetic
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/8430